Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-02-2017, 03:48 AM   #1
Registered User
 
flouese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Callahan, FL
Posts: 443
Aos failure & more

I replaced my AOS 15K miles ago. Now at startup I get a burst of white smoke, while at idle I have some smoke.
1. How long should an AOS last?
2. Am I experiencing AOS failure?
3. Would the P410 CEL code be a contributing factor to the white smoke and not AOS failure?

Of course this is happening just before the 20th anniversary celebration of the Boxster at the Omni Resort in Amelia Island Next weekend.

But wait, there is more, looks like my CPS is also on the way out. Getting harder and harder to start. Tach does not move during start up (how much should it move?)

__________________
99 Boxster base
1966 912 3 gauge
flouese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 04:53 AM   #2
Multi-Boxer Driver
 
Deserion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Orange Park, FL
Posts: 1,351
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by flouese View Post
But wait, there is more, looks like my CPS is also on the way out. Getting harder and harder to start. Tach does not move during start up (how much should it move?)
The needle should rise a few ticks.

Also, if you pull the oil filler cap off when the engine is running, do you notice any change? I occasionally get some smoke on startup, but it goes away within a moment or two (it also sits for a week at a time).
__________________
-Chris
2004 Porsche Boxster 2.7
1991 Porsche 911 C2 Targa 3.6
2017 Subaru Outback 3.6R
Deserion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 05:35 AM   #3
Registered User
 
kk2002s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S. New Jersey
Posts: 1,239
Garage
As Deserion mentioned, pull oil cap while idling. If it is difficult due to suction, that is an indication of a problem. If it pulls off with small suction and engine idle gets a bit rough, but with it on it smooths out, that appears to be normal.
Life span is all over on these things. I replaced as a maintenance item at 87k miles with no indication it was bad.
Does the smoke clear after the engine warms a bit?

I need to go out and see about the tach needle while my car still starts to know the base line.
I have only had the crank no start for a bad fuel pump relay

Good luck and keep us in the loop
__________________
2002 S - old school third pedal
Seal Grey
kk2002s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 06:11 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
Garage
I typically have gotten 40-50k miles from an AOS (sample size: 2). This is one of those places (unlike brakes for example) where I pay the premium and use factory parts. do you know what brand of AOS was installed? If it was installed by a Porsche dealer then it is almost certainly a Porsche part. If it was installed by an Indie or yourself that's not a given. When I take my car to my indie that's a discussion we always have before any work is done: the origen of replacement parts.
Cbonilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 07:16 AM   #5
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by flouese View Post
I replaced my AOS 15K miles ago. Now at startup I get a burst of white smoke, while at idle I have some smoke.
1. How long should an AOS last?
2. Am I experiencing AOS failure?
3. Would the P410 CEL code be a contributing factor to the white smoke and not AOS failure?
1. It should last 75K miles or more but there are a lot of reports of failures at much lower mileage.
2. Smoke at start up can be one indication that the AOS might be starting to go south, but it is impossible to know conclusively. Also, impossible to know when the final failure will occur - could be days or months or years.
3. Not likely but maybe. P0410 is a secondary air injection failure and the SAI only operates at start up so it could be contributing but the SAI addresses emission levels not smoke so that is why I say not likely.

Here is a good link for the P0410 code: https://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/39927-p0410-and-p1411-running-out-of-ideas/
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor

Last edited by thstone; 03-02-2017 at 08:28 AM.
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 07:44 AM   #6
03S
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: OH
Posts: 20
My boxster would smoke upon start up. I've found if you let your boxster idle for a moment or two before you shut it off it will not smoke when started. Worked for me, no more smoke.
03S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 08:28 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,022
The definitive diagnostic tool is a Pyle digital manometer.Thanks Ahsai.
https://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PDMM01/Digital-Manometer-with-11-Units-of-Measure
Anyone tried the 1/2 price knock-offs on Fleabay ?
or
https://www.amazon.com/Perfect-Prime-Professional-Manometer-Differential-13-79kPa/dp/B00N3PPZZY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1488476338&sr=8-3&keywords=digital+manometer

Last edited by Gelbster; 03-02-2017 at 08:39 AM.
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 08:50 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
Why bother when you can get the Pyle unit for $54 on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Meters-PDMM01-Digital-Manometer-Measure/dp/B005FU5HFI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488477002&sr=8-1&keywords=PDMM01

We have one, works fine, as does the Prime Professional unit, which we also have.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein

Last edited by JFP in PA; 03-02-2017 at 08:53 AM.
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 11:38 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
Why bother when you can get the Pyle unit for $54 on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Meters-PDMM01-Digital-Manometer-Measure/dp/B005FU5HFI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488477002&sr=8-1&keywords=PDMM01

We have one, works fine, as does the Prime Professional unit, which we also have.
Agreed for Pro use -that is why I linked to a Pyle and an alternative on Amazon - but for one -time diy use if they can get one for $25(EBay price)... If they are reliable.Which is why I asked if anyone had tried the 1/2 price clone manometers.I did not recommend them,I asked for the experience of others with the knock offs.

Last edited by Gelbster; 03-02-2017 at 12:31 PM.
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 12:22 PM   #10
Registered User
 
steved0x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: FL
Posts: 4,105
I've got this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3PPZZY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Supposed to be the same as the Pyle and others.

I've got an extra oil cap so I just need to get it together and I'll make a DIY and I can send it around for folks to use, although the shipping to/from would come to a significant % of the cost of the whole unit itself...
steved0x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 12:30 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,022
Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x View Post
I've got this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3PPZZY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Supposed to be the same as the Pyle and others.

I've got an extra oil cap so I just need to get it together and I'll make a DIY and I can send it around for folks to use, although the shipping to/from would come to a significant % of the cost of the whole unit itself...
Steve,
That is the unit I linked on Amazon.Gets good reviews factory responses there.The Fleabay ones are cheaper and are cosmetically different.
That is a good idea you kindly offered - epoxy a brass nipple on the spare/test oil cap ? Something like this +a cap?
Brass 1/8" Hose Barb x 1/8" Male NPT Fitting - AMFLO# 399. Or a 1/4"NPT x1/8"NPT brass bushing with a removeable 1/8" npt hose barb and a 1/8" plug to fill the hole when you are done testing?Source from HomeDepot or similar.
Much better than an uncertain diagnosis of AOS beginning to fail.

Last edited by Gelbster; 03-02-2017 at 01:09 PM.
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 01:07 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
Agreed for Pro use -that is why I linked to a Pyle and an alternative on Amazon - but for one -time diy use if they can get one for $25(EBay price)... If they are reliable.Which is why I asked if anyone had tried the 1/2 price clone manometers.I did not recommend them,I asked for the experience of others with the knock offs.
Why would you buy and unknown for $25, when a proven unit is only $38. These things are tools, something you will use over time. Don't cheap out.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 01:53 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
Steve,
That is the unit I linked on Amazon.Gets good reviews factory responses there.The Fleabay ones are cheaper and are cosmetically different.
That is a good idea you kindly offered - epoxy a brass nipple on the spare/test oil cap ? Something like this +a cap?
Brass 1/8" Hose Barb x 1/8" Male NPT Fitting - AMFLO# 399. Or a 1/4"NPT x1/8"NPT brass bushing with a removeable 1/8" npt hose barb and a 1/8" plug to fill the hole when you are done testing?Source from HomeDepot or similar.
Much better than an uncertain diagnosis of AOS beginning to fail.
You are better off to take an old oil cap and permanently mount a fitting to it:

__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 06:58 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Greater Seattle, WA
Posts: 534
I've not yet had opportunity to put it to actual use in a real project yet, but I picked up an inexpensive EBay model.


I have been able to verify that it works, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to have a "re-zero" feature, like the alternate low-price model options posted above may have. (It does have a "compare" feature which basically accomplishes the same thing, but it needs to be manually activated to re-zero after powering up each time. It's not off from zero a big amount, a small fraction of an inch of water. It's just sort of a minor annoyance that it doesn't read exactly "0.00". )

I will say I very much like the compact size, but perhaps they are all similarly sized. (For reference, its smaller than my Fluke digital multimeter.) I believe it will work great for doing basic diagnostic work. First project I'll probably use it on it is tankless water heater supply gas pressure diagnostics.

But I can already tell it's much more compact, convenient, so much more precise, (and hopefully more accurate) than my home-made "water U-tube" manometer, which I made years ago and got some good use out of on a home-made airflow tester, which I used very effectively for custom racing intake manifold development.
__________________
2001 Boxster
jakeru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 02:25 AM   #15
Registered User
 
flouese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Callahan, FL
Posts: 443
This is the point in the discussion where I plead ignorance. What will this tool do for me? Will it rule out AOS failure?
__________________
99 Boxster base
1966 912 3 gauge
flouese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 05:00 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,571
Digital manometers are used to measure the engine case vacuum levels, which should be 5 inches of water or less if the AOS is working properly. We have had cars come in with complaints of running issues and/or smoke, and found 8-10 inches of vacuum, indicating a failed AOS.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein

Last edited by JFP in PA; 03-03-2017 at 05:03 AM.
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2017, 07:15 PM   #17
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,395
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
You are better off to take an old oil cap and permanently mount a fitting to it:

Hey JFP. I have a manometer on the way and would like to get a cap ready. Any chance you could re attach a photo for future reference? Thanks in advance.
911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2017, 04:46 AM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 107
I recently had my aos replaced on porsche Dealer. I had these symptoms:

1) White smoke on startup (cold and warm)
2) When idle, the engine was reving by itself
3) Engine light went on ( but porsche said it was just because of the smoke )

As others mentioned, maybe an aftermarket Aos did fail ?

Lacostas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page