Go Back   986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Post Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-14-2016, 07:52 AM   #1
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
Tires and Paul Walker

This story caught my eye this morning after having spun on the first lap in a Boxster Spec race this past Saturday (caused by over-driving on cold tires).

Luckily, my skilled competitors were able to get cleanly through the mayhem that I created and the only damage that I incurred was a bruised ego, a waving furled black flag from the race officials (to tell me that i screwed up and not to do it again), and finding myself in last place.

The Boxster is a high performance sports car and many of us drive them in the "sporting tradition". The vast majority of 986 Boxster's lack the earliest version of Porsche traction control (TC) and have nothing as sophisticated as Porsche Stability Management (PSM). ABS is the only automated tool in the toolbox.

This means that its all up to you and your driving skills. Go take that long delayed performance driving school or do a DE or an autocross so you're confident in how to handle the car in an emergency situation. Pay close attention to your tires, keep them well maintained, and drive on the best set that you can afford.

The Truth Behind What Caused Paul Walkers Fatal Crash



__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 11:21 AM   #2
Registered User
 
husker boxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,865
So many random thoughts...

First, good article about the accident. 9 yr old tires were probably the leading factor to the accident, but that's not sexy enough for the media and lawyers won't win any suits against tire makers when the tires are that old, so they go after the manufacturer.

Cold tires... Both my Caymans came with PS2s that were a few yrs old. Both sets were not good DE tires and took almost a lap at my local track to warm up. Since I'd start in the back of my run group knowing the other guys would be going like a bat outta hell, it didn't take long for them to lap me. But I couldn't hit the track full blast with cold tires or I'd be doing some agricultural driving. Thstone, at least you only ended up with just a bruised ego. I saw someone pancake his 3 yr old CS on a cold, wet track (first session of the day). Those become expensive lessons.

Buying tires... Tires are so subjective and so plentiful, it can be difficult to know what to buy. Look at the comments on TireRack and one person says they're great tires and the next one says they're the worst tires ever. Start a thread and you'll get just as many divergent opinions. Since our tires run approx. $1K / set, you don't want to make a mistake. Bridgestone alone makes a half dozen tires for our cars. Add in the summer tire / all season decision and it becomes overwhelming. And technology changes quickly so the tires you bought last time may be outdated the next time you buy. Does anyone eliminate a tire based on its tread pattern? I have.

Original tires... With the current craze of older cars selling at auction in original condition, I wonder how many people then drive those cars with those old tires? Or buying low mileage 986s with their original tires? Do the seller or buyer know that's a problem or do they think it's cool? Does the seller buy a new set of tires or discount the price so the buyer can buy the set he / she needs (due to so many choices)?

OK, done scatter shooting.
__________________
GPRPCA Chief Driving Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green
1989 928 S4 5 spd - black
1987 928 S4 - Granite Green Metallic (Felsengrun)

Last edited by husker boxster; 09-15-2016 at 05:38 AM.
husker boxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 12:20 PM   #3
Registered User
 
flaps10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tacoma
Posts: 430
Quote:
This means that its all up to you and your driving skills.
If that weren't true I'd own a different car. I'm sad for the generations of pedal stabbers we're raising.
flaps10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 01:22 PM   #4
Registered User
 
MARTHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 163
.
.
A good article, but….. When idiots drive fast and reckless on the street (or parking lot), idiots sometimes die. I’ve driven like an idiot more than a few times, but lets take responsibility for our actions. Had they been driving the speed limit he’d still be alive. Should we replace old tires yes, but old tires are not to blame for Paul Walkers death. Porsche’s response "The perils, risk, and danger were open and obvious and known to him, and he chose to conduct himself in a manner so as to expose himself to such perils, dangers, and risks, thus assuming all the risks involved in using the vehicle”… this says it all as far as I’m concerned.

I purchased a low mileage 987 but I realized the 10 year old original tires would have to be replaced and I ask a new set be installed before purchase. I should have negotiated the price and installed the tires myself, the seller installed a new set of Bridgestone Potenza RE050A tires and I hate them. They are noisy and rough riding. I know some folk swear by them but I’ve never had any luck with Bridgestone.

I once upon a time purchased a set of Bridgestone for a Miata and replaced them after 500 miles, so while I don’t have money to burn I want something on my new baby that feels good to me.

So now I’m trying to figure out what I’m going to do, as husker said, tires are so subjective, and reviews on TireRack are all over the place. Do I live with the (1000’ish mileage) Bridgestone’s or take a chance purchasing another brand. I’m not necessarily wanting performance, a spirited drive from time to time is all I will be doing, I’ll not be going to the track, in my ole age I simply want smooth and quiet.
.
.
MARTHA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 01:32 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Porsche9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,796
Good article!

What some people drive around on in terms of tires can be scary. The 964 I bought had winter tires on it and this was in the L.A. area in the middle of summer. I obviously went out and bought new tires immediately but it worked out for me since I was able to negotiate the price down and pick the tires I want.

Here in the Phoenix area I replace tires every three years or when they are worn out, whichever comes first. The heat is really hard on the tires and if your track the car you are taking a huge risk. Throw in a rare rain and it gets scary.
__________________
03 Carrera
02 Boxster S Guards Red, black interior with matching hardtop
89 Carrera 4
89 944 S2
78 911SC
Porsche9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 06:34 PM   #6
Track rat
 
Topless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southern ID
Posts: 3,701
Garage
Yep, showboating at 120mph on a small street in an industrial area wearing 9 yr old tires was not the best plan. Hindsight is 20/20 and maybe they should have reeled it in a bit. Tragically their mistake turned out to be fatal.
__________________
2009 Cayman 2.9L PDK (with a few tweaks)
PCA-GPX Chief Driving Instructor-Ret.
Topless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:11 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Panama City, FL
Posts: 107
Thank you for the article. A couple of days ago I bought new rear tires. At the time I thought I should really buy all four but there's plenty of wear left on the fronts even if they are seven years old (I bought the car just over a year ago). I haven't yet had any really spirited drives or attended any DE or autocross events but after reading that article there really isn't any excuse. Tomorrow it's two new front tires. Thanks again for putting it all in perspective.
alynch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 08:27 PM   #8
Registered User
 
BIGJake111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Greenville, S.C.
Posts: 2,670
Garage
I saw this this morning. I love matts work and it's a good article. We knew a while back it was tires but the general public never tends to know about tires aging out.


Somewhat related, what were the oem tires on 986 cars? I assume what we can buy today from the budget companies is better than whatever high standard Porsche had back then.
BIGJake111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 04:10 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTHA View Post
.
.
Should we replace old tires yes, but old tires are not to blame for Paul Walkers death.
.
.
Ummm, yeah, I believe it's pretty clear they were... Should they have been driving that way where they did? No. But is that what cost them their lives? Nope.
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 04:51 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 885
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo View Post
Ummm, yeah, I believe it's pretty clear they were... Should they have been driving that way where they did? No. But is that what cost them their lives? Nope.
...umm, step back a tick. We can say the tires were a contributing factor here if you'd like but the tires were not the direct cause of the crash. Speed too fast would be the cause. The exact cause of their death? Slowing down really fast. If they were driving 45 mph on old tires then they'd still be here. If they were driving like that on a proper race track then they also still might have survived. Doing 100 mph on a road not designed for such idiocy with tires that old then yes you get this result.

I get the car is designed to make this work and on brand new tires there likely would be no crash...but they didn't have new tires. It is the responsibility of the driver to understand the limitations of his or her car each day they get behind the wheel. If you exceed those limitations it is neither the manufacturer nor the roads fault...only yours.

Simplified version: tires don't cause crashes. Choices leading to the exploitation of their limits do.
jdraupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 05:14 AM   #11
Registered User
 
mikesz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cranston RI
Posts: 902
Garage
First thing I did when I got my 99 Boxster was replace the tires and brakes.
__________________
99 Porsche Boxster
mikesz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 06:30 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 247
Garage
Good article. While I use my Boxster year round, I also have a separate set of winter tires, so both sets will likely get older before they get worn from mileage. Will have to do some research on the compound in the winter tires, but next season I'm due for new rubber all around. (Note to self: get more track time and wear them out before they dry out!)

A quick article on how to read the DOT date code:

How to Find Out How Old Your Tires Are

Another on tire aging via Edmunds:

How Old - and Dangerous - Are Your Tires?
tomonomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 07:14 AM   #13
2003 S, Arctic Silver, M6
 
paulofto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 1,348
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTHA View Post
.
. the seller installed a new set of Bridgestone Potenza RE050A tires and I hate them. They are noisy and rough riding. I know some folk swear by them but I’ve never had any luck with Bridgestone.
.
.
Martha, my 986 had RE050A's when I bought it. I found them noisy as well and not very good in the rain.. I went tire shopping last spring and eventually settled on Goodyear F1 A/S Asymmetrical. I went A/S versus summer only because I was heading out on a very long west coast trip not knowing what conditions I would hit going through the Canadian Rockies. After 4 or so months of driving on them I am very happy. The are grippy on dry, great in the rain and are very quiet. Just my 2 cents worth.

And, oh yeah, Porsche is in no way to blame for what happened to Paul Walker. Personal responsibility accounts for everything in this case.
paulofto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 08:18 AM   #14
CEL P0306
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 128
Garage
I bought my '98 two years ago. It had the original tires on it. I was afraid to go the speed limit.
aczyzewski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 09:35 AM   #15
Registered User
 
MARTHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulofto View Post
Martha, I went tire shopping last spring and eventually settled on Goodyear F1 A/S Asymmetrical. After 4 or so months of driving on them I am very happy. The are grippy on dry, great in the rain and are very quiet. Just my 2 cents worth.
Thanks paulofto, I will check them out.

I have been looking at Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06’s, they have a superior performance rating on TireRack.

I hate to remove the expensive, like new Bridgestone’s, but I want a tire that has a good ride quality and comfortable noise level befitting a Boxster.

The Bridgestone’s TireRack performance rating is 7.2 ride quality and 6.8 noise comfort. I personally feel these a little too generous.

The Continental’s are 9.1 ride quality and 8.8 noise comfort.

Anyone have thoughts?
.
.
MARTHA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 09:49 AM   #16
Registered User
 
RedTele58's Avatar
MARTHA - I have them (Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06) on my 2002 S. They ride great, are quiet and wear well. They're a great highway/touring tire (which it sounds like where you do all your driving). Not so great as a track tire.

Rick
__________________
I think I have a Porsche problem...
RedTele58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 09:59 AM   #17
Registered User
 
MARTHA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTele58 View Post
MARTHA - I have them (Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06) on my 2002 S. They ride great, are quiet and wear well. They're a great highway/touring tire (which it sounds like where you do all your driving). Not so great as a track tire. Rick
Thanks Rick

And I too have a Porsche problem…LoL
.
.
MARTHA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 02:20 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdraupp View Post
It is the responsibility of the driver to understand the limitations of his or her car each day they get behind the wheel. If you exceed those limitations it is neither the manufacturer nor the roads fault...only yours.
Oh, of course. Obviously the more you know about cars, and the more you know about your car specifically, the better off you are. Clearly it’s not in one’s best interest to outdrive the capability of your equipment. But, on the track and off, people do it all the time! (Or, at a minimum, they push the limits of that equipment.) Is it smart? Often times, no---it doesn't always work out well. So, in this case, with Roger and Paul, what FAILED?? The goshdarn tires, that’s what failed---they didn’t do what we’ve come to expect tires to do. In keeping with the whole spirit of the linked article, that’s what my point was. Obviously both the tire and the actions of the driver contributed---the cause of the huge majority of accidents is multifactorial.

Last edited by Frodo; 09-15-2016 at 02:23 PM.
Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 02:42 PM   #19
Registered User
 
jaykay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,668
Thanks Tom...a great post!
__________________
986 00S
jaykay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2016, 04:49 PM   #20
Racer Boy
 
Racer Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 946
Yesterday I was at a track day, and at one point I was behind a 2002 911. We were in a long left-handed sweeper, and the 911 just slowly lost grip in the rear and spun.

Afterwards, I found the driver and we talked. He said he spun on the next lap, too, and couldn't figure out why, because he wasn't pushing the car as hard as he thought it could go. I looked at the tires (Pirellis), and they looked like they were in pretty good shape.

I asked him how old the tires were, and he thought about it and said that they were the original tires! When I told him that they were 14 years old, he looked very startled and said, "I bet that is my problem right there! I'm going to go get new tires tomorrow".

Racer Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Post Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page