What are your thoughts on this oil migration?

[FauxDiablo]

Hi, new to forum, not new to mid-engined money pits.

After accepting the fact that I can be compulsive, I bought this 2002 Boxster S from a guy who brought it into the dealer for a new clutch, and upon asking his wife's permission to spend another $3K on the car, he was told to sell it.

Needless to say, I got it for a good price.

It is currently on the hoist, awaiting the arrival of about $700 worth of clutch and 60K mile tune-up parts, among other things. The car only had 66,000 miles on it, and runs very nicely. The clutch was not actually bad, but the throw out bearing is toast.

Anyway...

When I removed the engine cover, I was greeted with oily plastic tubes (A, B & C) that APPEAR as though oil has migrated through them. It appears as though there are no oil leaks, which is why this is perplexing me. There is no oily/dusty residue on the metal parts, so it is not an oil leak spraying a fine mist on anything.

However, on the drivers bank (Arrow D) some of this oil does migrate down to (or up form?) the lower part of that intake.

Any ideas on what is going on before I tear into something I should not worry about? Any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated!



Also, the oil was very dirty when I changed it, so I cut-open the filter for an inspection. There was absolutely no trace of metals above the microscopic level which made me very happy...But I DID find 3-4 very small (pinhead sized) pieces of black or brown plastic pieces...Too small to worry about?

[j.fro]

here goes my $0.02
C is the oil filler tube. the accordion sections are known to crack and leak, and eventually create a vacuum leak leading to a CEL. While you are at it, remove the tube, have a look at it and replace as necessary. My money is that it breaks in two when you are removing it, it gets that brittle.
A,B,and D are leaks coming from the rubber joints in the intake. Those flex around as the engine revs. Hey, if that's the intake, how'd oil get in there??? Great question. The air-oil separator goes bad after a while and I suspect yours is still in the "good" range, but letting some oil pass through. Pull the throttlebody and have a look inside the intake "T" pipe. A very light coating of oil passes inspection... puddles of oil do not.

[FauxDiablo]

Originally Posted by j.fro

here goes my $0.02
C is the oil filler tube. the accordion sections are known to crack and leak, and eventually create a vacuum leak leading to a CEL. While you are at it, remove the tube, have a look at it and replace as necessary. My money is that it breaks in two when you are removing it, it gets that brittle.
A,B,and D are leaks coming from the rubber joints in the intake. Those flex around as the engine revs. Hey, if that's the intake, how'd oil get in there??? Great question. The air-oil separator goes bad after a while and I suspect yours is still in the "good" range, but letting some oil pass through. Pull the throttlebody and have a look inside the intake "T" pipe. A very light coating of oil passes inspection... puddles of oil do not.

Your $.02 is worth more than that to me.

Very sound thinking from someone who knows way more about the intricacies of Boxsterish stuff than I do. I do need to learn more about this AOS deal anyway, so how better than to take it apart and inspect it?

Thanks!

[Mark_T]

LOL!! Any guy that needs his wife's permission to fix his car is too much of a pussy to own a Porsche in the fist place.

[husker boxster]

While you have the engine cover off, check the power steering fluid. It's just to the right of your 'B'. Very easy to neglect it, which leads to pump failures. NOTE: Porsches use a lot of unique / synthetic fluids, so DON'T just grab any garden variety fluid you may have on your shelf. Porsches require Pentosin power steering fluid. Easy to find at your local parts store, but probably not what you have on your shelf. Antifreeze needs to be phosphate free as another example.

BTW... this suggestion is off topic to your oil leak adventure. Just giving you a heads-up on something to do while you're digging into the bowels of you Box.

[FauxDiablo]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

While you have the engine cover off, check the power steering fluid. It's just to the right of your 'B'. Very easy to neglect it, which leads to pump failures. NOTE: Porsches use a lot of unique / synthetic fluids, so DON'T just grab any garden variety fluid you may have on your shelf. Porsches require Pentosin power steering fluid. Easy to find at your local parts store, but probably not what you have on your shelf. Antifreeze needs to be phosphate free as another example.

BTW... this suggestion is off topic to your oil leak adventure. Just giving you a heads-up on something to do while you're digging into the bowels of you Box.

NO problem, all input is welcome.

Im well-aware of the Pentosin requirements. I have an Audi V8-powered mid-engine Diablo replica that I have been tinkering with for a few years.

[Racer Boy]

Originally Posted by FauxDiablo

Hi, new to forum, not new to mid-engined money pits

What other mid-engined money pits do you have experience with?

[Gelbster]

Big issue is access -but you have it on the hoist & the gearbox off. .So I suggest you ask for a "While we're in there list"
One thing to check is the AOS.
Take some photos of the IMS cover and ask if you have the single row or double row IMSB.My guess is -single. That is worthy of a separate thread .
At those miles the DMF should be O.K. but it is easy to check now.Later ....not so much.
Consider changing the gbox fluid?

[FauxDiablo]

Originally Posted by Racer Boy

What other mid-engined money pits do you have experience with?

Fiero's
MR2's
Working on a few 308 Ferraris and Panteras a long time ago as a mechanic.
My fake Diablo
Now this Boxster...experience comes quickly. lol

[FauxDiablo]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Big issue is access -but you have it on the hoist & the gearbox off. .So I suggest you ask for a "While we're in there list"
One thing to check is the AOS.
Take some photos of the IMS cover and ask if you have the single row or double row IMSB.My guess is -single. That is worthy of a separate thread .
At those miles the DMF should be O.K. but it is easy to check now.Later ....not so much.
Consider changing the gbox fluid?

Yep, new to the whole AOS stuff, but will be well-read on it in a few days.

I was planning on removing the cover (after isolating the engine at TDC or whatever and loosening the chain tensioners. If that post has any lateral play whatsoever after the cover is off, it's getting replaced. Might even replace it just for ****************s-n-giggles so I can say that the car has a new one...I doubt I will own this for more than a year, as it is a tide-me-over while my "Diablo Thing" is being finished.

Gearbox oil will be replaced.

The DMF is toast. Getting a new one. The DMF friction surface looked great, and that is what pissed me off when I found that the DMF was WAY out-of-spec.

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

LOL!! Any guy that needs his wife's permission to fix his car is too much of a pussy to own a Porsche in the fist place.

You're obviously not married. If I spent 3 grand without my wife's approval, she'd be my ex wife.

Happy wife=Happy life.

[kk2002s]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

You're obviously not married. If I spent 3 grand without my wife's approval, she'd be my ex wife.

Happy wife=Happy life.

If my wife don't like me throwing money at my Boxster - She can get the hell out of my Trailer

[FauxDiablo]

Pulled the flywheel off...

I was greeted by a VERY dry Rear Main Seal area

I just blew-off all of the clutch dust and what you see is what I got. I will NOT be touching the RMS.

The IMSB inspection is the next step.

Just by looking at the IMSB flange, does anybody know if this is going to be a Double Row or a Single Row bearing? Does it matter?

My thoughts were to lock it at TDC, lock the cams, take tension off the chains, and then remove the bolt and cover to check for any play on the bolt/shaft. If it wobbles, it will be replaced...and was planning on leaving it alone if it's not broken. 67K miles.

[Smallblock454]

Hello,

a 2002 S will be single row.

Regards, Markus

[FauxDiablo]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

Hello,

a 2002 S will be single row.

Regards, Markus

Yes, thank you.

I just found that out not a couple hours ago...part numbers rarely lie.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by FauxDiablo

Pulled the flywheel off...

I was greeted by a VERY dry Rear Main Seal area

I just blew-off all of the clutch dust and what you see is what I got. I will NOT be touching the RMS.

The IMSB inspection is the next step.

Just by looking at the IMSB flange, does anybody know if this is going to be a Double Row or a Single Row bearing? Does it matter?

My thoughts were to lock it at TDC, lock the cams, take tension off the chains, and then remove the bolt and cover to check for any play on the bolt/shaft. If it wobbles, it will be replaced...and was planning on leaving it alone if it's not broken. 67K miles.

Just to check it, you have done 99% of the work required to replace it, so why not just pull it and put in an LN replacement and be done with it?

And while you are at it, what size is the nut on that center bolt?

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Just to check it, you have done 99% of the work required to replace it, so why not just pull it and put in an LN replacement and be done with it?

And while you are at it, what size is the nut on that center bolt?

What JFP said . . . . you are on the final stretch do the IMS and the RMS while you are in there.

[FauxDiablo]

Originally Posted by paulofto

What JFP said . . . . you are on the final stretch do the IMS and the RMS while you are in there.

No reason whatsoever to do the RMS. It's never leaked (good case halves and sealing!), and I have learned to never mess with stuff like that if it isn't broken.

The IMS is a different story though. I will be opening it up soon, and if it's good, I may not replace it at this time....Still pondering it.

I do believe that the IMSB may possibly be the single most feared part of these motors, but the odds that it is good are in my favor, and I have seen WAY too much chest-beating as to who makes the best update, and a lot of those same people are throwing a lot of horror stories this way in what seems like scare-to-buy tactics at times.

I will know more after I crack-open that IMSB flange.

[FauxDiablo]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Just to check it, you have done 99% of the work required to replace it, so why not just pull it and put in an LN replacement and be done with it?

And while you are at it, what size is the nut on that center bolt?

The nut, only judging from the photo (lol) appears to be about 14mm.

Not sold on a certain update bearing yet.

Actually, I am leaning towards the Pelican "replace-again-when-you-do-the-next clutch" bearing if I find a brittle seal issue...and if the seals are still intact/supple, I may just wrap it back up...or I may even go with the Nachi bearing that has a higher heat resistance in the seals. Not sure yet.

It's too bad that an oblong/oval-roller-shaped bearing is not available...it would be at home in that position and give a little bit of yield against a torsional "wobble", unlike the standard roller bearing, and be able to take more of a load unlike a standard ball bearing. Sigh.

There is another issue that is never brought up .... "German engineering" does not necessarily add credence to "German assembled"...they have cars there that were built after noon on a Friday as well. ... wasn't even assembled in Germany. It was assembled in a country that is more in-line with Russia than Germany.... alot more Fridays in Finland if you catch my drift.

[Smallblock454]

Hi FauxDiablo,

you're wrong this time. The engines and the chassis components (axles, transmission) of all 986 where made and completed in Stuttgart Zuffenhausen and than where shipped to Valmet in Finland.

Regards, Markus