My first REAL SCARE with the Boxster! need some advice..

[Smallblock454]

Hello CrisZenithBlue,

i would say it is a financial decision.

What would it cost to buy a car that gives you the same driving fun and doesn't have the expensive 986 issues.

For how much can you sell the 986 as is (roller).

For how much can you sell the 986 and part out the good parts – if that is an option. But that takes time and space.

I think 3.500-4.000 USD is a very good price for an engine revision. But as always this is just a rough estimate i think. You know the real price if the engine is disassembled. And it is very easy to throw another thousands in.

And if you throw another amount in the car, the car is still 16 years old. So there will be another thousands following next time; just because it's a Porsche.

Not an easy decision i think.

Regards, Markus

[CrisZenithBlue]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

Not entirely sure but I have made a lot of popcorn guessing that the IMS DOF may have something to do with this if it is bearing related.

That would seriously grind my gears as that is the first thing I did to the car when I got it.
It's gonna get teared down so we will find out for sure!

[Disaster]

Originally Posted by specboxCO

Failure of the hydraulic cam adjuster. The green material is from the seals inside the unit.

And if it got out of timing that would explain a lot and not be a catastrophic failure.

But the one rule is STOP driving at the first sign of an issue. That can be the difference between a minor fix (cam chain tensioners) and total engine failure.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by CrisZenithBlue

That would seriously grind my gears as that is the first thing I did to the car when I got it.
It's gonna get teared down so we will find out for sure!

You would not be the first..............

[Smallblock454]

If you are talking about DOF, are we talking about this system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnVaMjaxGk

Some thoughts on that.
Every oil circuit has an oil filter bypass. So the oil is not filtered under all circumstances.
The IMS bearing material wasn't designed for an motor oil feed. Is was designed for a special grease filling.

But hey, maybe i think too much sometimes.

Regards, Markus

[mikefocke]

And just what specifically gets updated and done for the ~$4k? I ask because a total rebuild by a well known rebuilder runs 5+ times that. So thinking that all the issues will be solved for $4k seems too good to be true to me. I can see a healthy $1k just for the removal and re-installation of the engine/trans. That only leaves $3k for the cleanup of the engine that has all the shavings that were ending up in the oil filter you saw plus new parts. AOS, water pump, tensioners, IMS, RMS, pads, plugs and coils. But then what do the mains look like, the rod bearings, the cylinders.

I've read a lot of postings about engines that had the half done rebuilds that failed soon after.

[CrisZenithBlue]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

If you are talking about DOF, are we talking about this system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnVaMjaxGk

Some thoughts on that.
Every oil circuit has an oil filter bypass. So the oil is not filtered under all circumstances.
The IMS bearing material wasn't designed for an motor oil feed. Is was designed for a special grease filling.

But hey, maybe i think too much sometimes.

Regards, Markus

yes i have the tuneRS DOF system. i'd be seriously pissed if thats what failed but we'll see. I have the double row bearing that was replaced with the DOF. the original bearing with 111000 miles on it looked good when taken out, i've done oil changes every 4-5k miles and i've driven the car almost on a daily basis (30 miles plus) in the last year except for a couple of months when i was out of the country. and i drove it like it was meant to be driven, garage queen she was not.. so i dont think it was the IMS that went..

[CrisZenithBlue]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

And just what specifically gets updated and done for the ~$4k? I ask because a total rebuild by a well known rebuilder runs 5+ times that. So thinking that all the issues will be solved for $4k seems too good to be true to me. I can see a healthy $1k just for the removal and re-installation of the engine/trans. That only leaves $3k for the cleanup of the engine that has all the shavings that were ending up in the oil filter you saw plus new parts. AOS, water pump, tensioners, IMS, RMS, pads, plugs and coils. But then what do the mains look like, the rod bearings, the cylinders.

I've read a lot of postings about engines that had the half done rebuilds that failed soon after.

i am not sure yet until my mechanic opens it up but will definitely post the findings and the plan, this is a time when i really need advice and input from you guys.
i will not accept a half rebuild and if i have to spend more to get it done properly i will. it still makes more sense to me than to pay 4k for a used engine that i know nothing about and another 1k to drop it in.

at a well known Porsche specialist Vertex in Miami they quoted 10k to put a rebuilt engine in it, out of which 1200$ labor. they would give me 12 months warranty or 12.000 miles but cant track it. too rich for my blood and dont like the warranty conditions, i plan on tracking it.

so with that in mind i went to my mechanic who builds old 911s from the ground up and has plenty of experience with water cooled engines and he said he could do it for around 4k. if it costs more then so be it, i wont cheap out as i plan to get at least a couple of fun filled years out of the car.

[Nmbrsix]

The metal shavings in the oil would worry me. Greatly.

I don't know how you can tear the motor down enough to sufficiently flush all of the complex network of oil passages clean, much less rebuild anything, for $4000.

For that $, I think I'd start with a known good 3.2L motor from an S and do the necessary upgrades to that while it's out of the car--cam chains/adjusters/ramps, AOS, water pump, IMS, RMS, etc. That would likely run ~$10k at a minimum...

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by CrisZenithBlue

yes i have the tuneRS DOF system. i'd be seriously pissed if thats what failed but we'll see. I have the double row bearing that was replaced with the DOF. the original bearing with 111000 miles on it looked good when taken out, i've done oil changes every 4-5k miles and i've driven the car almost on a daily basis (30 miles plus) in the last year except for a couple of months when i was out of the country. and i drove it like it was meant to be driven, garage queen she was not.. so i dont think it was the IMS that went..

I think you will find that the DOF is still fine, but your bank 1 VarioCam unit not so much, which resulted in all the damage. That said, it is entirely possible that one was involved in the demise of the other. On the M96/97 engines, you have to be very careful about where you draw oil from, as other systems are not always happy about that happening. You are not the first to encounter issues.

[Smallblock454]

@ JFP in PA: Interesting point. Porsche used a different way. The X51 996 models have an additional oil line from the oil pump on the left side to the "back" – OK on a 996 it's vice versa.

Regards, Markus

[Steve Tinker]

I'm willing to bet that the metal in the oil filter housing is not magnetic, but from the main & big end bearings - hence the lack of oil pressure (flashing oil light), coupled with very thin, high temperature oil.

Regarding the oil feed to the DOF, it may well work on paper and maybe for street use but CrisZenith was driving "flat out for an hour and a half" which puts into question the possibility of oil starvation to the bearings. Especially taking the oil feed from the cylinder head and not the oil filter area.
Sometimes robbing Peter to pay Paul is not always successful. I think I'll stick with my simple LN ceramic IMS bearing which has been in the engine since 2010......

[Mig]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

You would not be the first..............

DOF's have caused problems? What info can you share?

[BIGJake111]

I hate to see threads like this. Thankfully they benefit the knowledge of this whole community. I don't post much in them because all I can give is speculation, but I'm always around to read and watch.

I'm sorry about your Boxster and I'm sorry for your wallet.

[first boxster]

I have had the same thing in my filter. I was told that is was the seal on the cam adjuster.Why do these fail? I am planning on doing the work plus the adjuster ramps and tensor this fall. Am I looking for problems doing this. Nothing else is showing in the filter.
I have a 2000 S with approximately 89,000 miles.

[Smallblock454]

Hello,

can somebody explain to a stupid guy like me where there is a green seal or anything greenish on the camshaft adjust mechnism?




Thanks & regards, Markus

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Mig

DOF's have caused problems? What info can you share?

It has been written up on line previously, with those at the shop involved labeled as "liars" and "shills for the competition" by the people that market the product, so it doesn't need another rehash here. My shop, and others, have seen problems with it, mainly oil starvation in one cylinder head, which no one seems interested in addressing other than to start calling names and threatening lawsuits to silence any discussion.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

Hello,

can somebody explain to a stupid guy like me where there is a green seal or anything greenish on the camshaft adjust mechnism?




Thanks & regards, Markus

You can't see it, it is inside the VarioCam unit itself. Porsche published a VarioCam technical guide with diagrams that show where it is. VarioCam+ have even more of the green seals due to the lift adjustment.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by CrisZenithBlue

OH CRAP!!!

it looks like my engine is toast!

oil filter housing had a lot of metal particles and the filter is full of green plastic bits..











on the way to the shop (6 miles away) i got a bit of vibration and the oil pressure light came on for a second.

fresh oil and a new filter and driving home the light came on for half a second.
engine doesnt clunk or anything but its probably eating itself up inside.


DAMN! should i still try and take it to get it checked or assume it's gone?

i am having a bad Sunday to say the least. if it is dead at least it went out like a sports car, pushing hard at 7200 RPM in a tunnel screaming like a murder victim. a worthy death. :ah:

I don't see an IMS failure here. Get a magnet and see if the trash in your filter is magnetic. If not, your IMS bearing is very likely fine. One or both of your variocam adjusters seem to have bit the dust, Contact Woody to see if he has replacements. While you are in there you might consider new chain ramps and tensioners.

[CrisZenithBlue]

regardless of what it was that caused it.. i am getting a bit concerned about a rebuild not lasting.

could i get some input on what is a MUST to replace while rebuilding?

also, would you say it's better to drop a used engine because of the difficulty of cleaning the broken one? is it really that difficult to clean the metal shavings?

i'm about to pull the trigger and having some second thoughts about the rebuild hearing some of the concerns.