My first REAL SCARE with the Boxster! need some advice..

[JFP in PA]

Bingo!..... Now why did the seals fail on that particular unit?

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Bingo!..... Now why did the seals fail on that particular unit?

Not entirely sure but I have made a lot of popcorn guessing that the IMS DOF may have something to do with this if it is bearing related.

[CrisZenithBlue]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

Not entirely sure but I have made a lot of popcorn guessing that the IMS DOF may have something to do with this if it is bearing related.

That would seriously grind my gears as that is the first thing I did to the car when I got it.
It's gonna get teared down so we will find out for sure!

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by CrisZenithBlue

That would seriously grind my gears as that is the first thing I did to the car when I got it.
It's gonna get teared down so we will find out for sure!

You would not be the first..............

[Mig]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

You would not be the first..............

DOF's have caused problems? What info can you share?

[CrisZenithBlue]

Took it to vertex auto here in Miami and just showing them the filter filled with crap and the amount of metal shaving plus the oil pressure issue and they confirmed its toast.

I stopped driving it of course to prevent it from grenading itself.

I am thinking rebuilding it is the way to go. I have a mechanic that does this on a regular basis and he would rebuild it for 3500-4000$ with parts included. At least that way I know everything will be looked over and I know what's in the engine as opposed to taking a risk on a used one.

What do you guys think?

I love the car too much to give it up and I've tailored it to my liking. Don't have the time or patience to start over on something new..
I'll throw in a new sport suspension while he's at it, at 130k it's toast and front left shock spilled it's guts all over the control arm.

I get mad thinking "these cars don't last!!!" Then I remember it's a 16 year old car that I drive the crap out every single day and even with this investment I'll still be under 20 grand which for me is good value.

Gotta keep on rolling!

[geraintthomas]

Can't put a price on a car that you love. If you know the car and wouldn't want a different one, then do it. Essentially you'll either be paying more for another Boxster that could have some hidden demons, or you could spend $4000 on yours and have it back to the way it was - but better.

I'd say rebuild.

[Smallblock454]

Hello CrisZenithBlue,

i would say it is a financial decision.

What would it cost to buy a car that gives you the same driving fun and doesn't have the expensive 986 issues.

For how much can you sell the 986 as is (roller).

For how much can you sell the 986 and part out the good parts – if that is an option. But that takes time and space.

I think 3.500-4.000 USD is a very good price for an engine revision. But as always this is just a rough estimate i think. You know the real price if the engine is disassembled. And it is very easy to throw another thousands in.

And if you throw another amount in the car, the car is still 16 years old. So there will be another thousands following next time; just because it's a Porsche.

Not an easy decision i think.

Regards, Markus

[Smallblock454]

If you are talking about DOF, are we talking about this system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnVaMjaxGk

Some thoughts on that.
Every oil circuit has an oil filter bypass. So the oil is not filtered under all circumstances.
The IMS bearing material wasn't designed for an motor oil feed. Is was designed for a special grease filling.

But hey, maybe i think too much sometimes.

Regards, Markus

[CrisZenithBlue]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

If you are talking about DOF, are we talking about this system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnVaMjaxGk

Some thoughts on that.
Every oil circuit has an oil filter bypass. So the oil is not filtered under all circumstances.
The IMS bearing material wasn't designed for an motor oil feed. Is was designed for a special grease filling.

But hey, maybe i think too much sometimes.

Regards, Markus

yes i have the tuneRS DOF system. i'd be seriously pissed if thats what failed but we'll see. I have the double row bearing that was replaced with the DOF. the original bearing with 111000 miles on it looked good when taken out, i've done oil changes every 4-5k miles and i've driven the car almost on a daily basis (30 miles plus) in the last year except for a couple of months when i was out of the country. and i drove it like it was meant to be driven, garage queen she was not.. so i dont think it was the IMS that went..

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by CrisZenithBlue

yes i have the tuneRS DOF system. i'd be seriously pissed if thats what failed but we'll see. I have the double row bearing that was replaced with the DOF. the original bearing with 111000 miles on it looked good when taken out, i've done oil changes every 4-5k miles and i've driven the car almost on a daily basis (30 miles plus) in the last year except for a couple of months when i was out of the country. and i drove it like it was meant to be driven, garage queen she was not.. so i dont think it was the IMS that went..

I think you will find that the DOF is still fine, but your bank 1 VarioCam unit not so much, which resulted in all the damage. That said, it is entirely possible that one was involved in the demise of the other. On the M96/97 engines, you have to be very careful about where you draw oil from, as other systems are not always happy about that happening. You are not the first to encounter issues.

[mikefocke]

And just what specifically gets updated and done for the ~$4k? I ask because a total rebuild by a well known rebuilder runs 5+ times that. So thinking that all the issues will be solved for $4k seems too good to be true to me. I can see a healthy $1k just for the removal and re-installation of the engine/trans. That only leaves $3k for the cleanup of the engine that has all the shavings that were ending up in the oil filter you saw plus new parts. AOS, water pump, tensioners, IMS, RMS, pads, plugs and coils. But then what do the mains look like, the rod bearings, the cylinders.

I've read a lot of postings about engines that had the half done rebuilds that failed soon after.

[CrisZenithBlue]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

And just what specifically gets updated and done for the ~$4k? I ask because a total rebuild by a well known rebuilder runs 5+ times that. So thinking that all the issues will be solved for $4k seems too good to be true to me. I can see a healthy $1k just for the removal and re-installation of the engine/trans. That only leaves $3k for the cleanup of the engine that has all the shavings that were ending up in the oil filter you saw plus new parts. AOS, water pump, tensioners, IMS, RMS, pads, plugs and coils. But then what do the mains look like, the rod bearings, the cylinders.

I've read a lot of postings about engines that had the half done rebuilds that failed soon after.

i am not sure yet until my mechanic opens it up but will definitely post the findings and the plan, this is a time when i really need advice and input from you guys.
i will not accept a half rebuild and if i have to spend more to get it done properly i will. it still makes more sense to me than to pay 4k for a used engine that i know nothing about and another 1k to drop it in.

at a well known Porsche specialist Vertex in Miami they quoted 10k to put a rebuilt engine in it, out of which 1200$ labor. they would give me 12 months warranty or 12.000 miles but cant track it. too rich for my blood and dont like the warranty conditions, i plan on tracking it.

so with that in mind i went to my mechanic who builds old 911s from the ground up and has plenty of experience with water cooled engines and he said he could do it for around 4k. if it costs more then so be it, i wont cheap out as i plan to get at least a couple of fun filled years out of the car.

[Nmbrsix]

The metal shavings in the oil would worry me. Greatly.

I don't know how you can tear the motor down enough to sufficiently flush all of the complex network of oil passages clean, much less rebuild anything, for $4000.

For that $, I think I'd start with a known good 3.2L motor from an S and do the necessary upgrades to that while it's out of the car--cam chains/adjusters/ramps, AOS, water pump, IMS, RMS, etc. That would likely run ~$10k at a minimum...

[Smallblock454]

@ JFP in PA: Interesting point. Porsche used a different way. The X51 996 models have an additional oil line from the oil pump on the left side to the "back" – OK on a 996 it's vice versa.

Regards, Markus

[Steve Tinker]

I'm willing to bet that the metal in the oil filter housing is not magnetic, but from the main & big end bearings - hence the lack of oil pressure (flashing oil light), coupled with very thin, high temperature oil.

Regarding the oil feed to the DOF, it may well work on paper and maybe for street use but CrisZenith was driving "flat out for an hour and a half" which puts into question the possibility of oil starvation to the bearings. Especially taking the oil feed from the cylinder head and not the oil filter area.
Sometimes robbing Peter to pay Paul is not always successful. I think I'll stick with my simple LN ceramic IMS bearing which has been in the engine since 2010......

[BIGJake111]

I hate to see threads like this. Thankfully they benefit the knowledge of this whole community. I don't post much in them because all I can give is speculation, but I'm always around to read and watch.

I'm sorry about your Boxster and I'm sorry for your wallet.

[first boxster]

I have had the same thing in my filter. I was told that is was the seal on the cam adjuster.Why do these fail? I am planning on doing the work plus the adjuster ramps and tensor this fall. Am I looking for problems doing this. Nothing else is showing in the filter.
I have a 2000 S with approximately 89,000 miles.

[Smallblock454]

Hello,

can somebody explain to a stupid guy like me where there is a green seal or anything greenish on the camshaft adjust mechnism?




Thanks & regards, Markus

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

Hello,

can somebody explain to a stupid guy like me where there is a green seal or anything greenish on the camshaft adjust mechnism?




Thanks & regards, Markus

You can't see it, it is inside the VarioCam unit itself. Porsche published a VarioCam technical guide with diagrams that show where it is. VarioCam+ have even more of the green seals due to the lift adjustment.