03-15-2016, 11:32 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 97
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Use gt3 water pump with metal impeller?
Okay indie says they typically replace Boxster water pumps with the metal impeller ones found on the gt3. I've seen some threads indicating that might not be advised due to possible block milling if the impeller gets a little loose. Thoughts?
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2003 Boxster S
2004 Carrera Cab
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03-15-2016, 11:34 AM
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#2
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Custom User Title Here
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ft. Leonard Wood
Posts: 6,164
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My opinion is that you need a new mechanic. You should never put a metal impeller water pump on the M96.
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https://youtube.com/@UnwindTimeVintageWatchMuseum
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03-15-2016, 12:37 PM
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#3
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I am my own mechanic....
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlewave
My opinion is that you need a new mechanic. You should never put a metal impeller water pump on the M96.
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Agree. It's for a good reason.
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'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
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03-15-2016, 12:45 PM
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#4
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,797
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NO NO NO NO NO!!!!
do not use a metal impeller. Should the bearing start to fail it will grind your engine block
Get a Pierburg water pump who makes them for Porsche
They are under $200 from warehouse 33 auto . com. (Remove spaces) If you enter RENNLIST at the checkout you get a 10% discount as well.
While you are changing the wp, replace the thermostat with a low temp one
Get a new mechanic, one that actually knows about Porsche cars
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2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
Last edited by JayG; 08-02-2017 at 07:24 AM.
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03-15-2016, 01:51 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 2,079
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They are just buying a cheaper water pump
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03-15-2016, 02:38 PM
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#6
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There Is No Substitute.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlewave
My opinion is that you need a new mechanic. You should never put a metal impeller water pump on the M96.
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I agree 100% with all of the above comments. This mechanic obviously has very little experience with the M96, because no knowledgeable Porsche mechanic would recommend a metal impeller.
As stated above Pierburg is the same as Porsche OEM. You can save a few bucks by not buying the Pierburg pump in a Porsche box, but you don't want to skimp on the water pump.
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1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
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03-15-2016, 03:01 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,507
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There are a lot of after market water pumps out there that use reinforced plastic impellers. The GT3 engine block is different. Use a high quality one with a plastic impeller. Pierburg is a good choice - for example PIERBURG 7.31081.02.0. Or Laso 7520 0106. But there are also other good quality water pumps available. And do yourself a favour and don't buy the cheapest.
Regards, Markus
Last edited by Smallblock454; 03-15-2016 at 03:43 PM.
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03-15-2016, 03:28 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 97
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Very interesting. They are very respected in the area and pretty much only work on Porsches and have for over 50 years. I'm surprised he would recommend an approach that seems so obviously wrong based on the feedback from this board. Thanks for the great feedback. I'll run the concerns by him and get his thoughts. Should be interesting.
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2003 Boxster S
2004 Carrera Cab
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03-15-2016, 04:17 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Dahlonega , Georgia
Posts: 1,347
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Ask the shop if the metal impellar water pump they install fails and digs into the block if they will cover the damage. That should be an interesting discussion.
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2002 Boxster S Arctic Silver with black top with glass window and black leather interior. Jake Raby 3.6 SS ( the beast ) with IMS Solution. 996 GT3 front bumper , GT3 rocker covers and GT3TEK rear diffuser and Joe Toth composites rear ducktail spoiler .
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03-15-2016, 05:28 PM
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#10
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I am my own mechanic....
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc
Ask the shop if the metal impellar water pump they install fails and digs into the block if they will cover the damage. That should be an interesting discussion.
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I saved my old pump. It was scraping the block. You can see the marks on the impeller if they don't believe you.
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'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
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03-16-2016, 05:45 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cranston RI
Posts: 902
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That is why I work on my 99 Boxster. When I pay someone to do something I expect them to know more than me and do a better job. Not usually the case.
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99 Porsche Boxster
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03-16-2016, 09:08 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,029
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This subject comes up often but seldom are there detailed explanations of why metal/plastic is the best choice.The threads deteriorate just like the oil chioice threads.Not helpful. I have the curse of an inquiring mind so here are a few details that others may add to/correct.
1.The aluminum blades will only score/abrade the w/p housing if you neglect a worn bearing.
2.The plastic blades will also mark the housing if a wobbly bearing is neglected. More serious - the plastic blades can disintegrate (but why-age/heat??). You will need to dismantle the entire engine to retrieve all the little pieces .Why? Because they block the coolant passages & then......Just done that job!
So pick your poison.
Best suggestion whichever you choose - is watch for coolant leaks from the w/p or noises and replace the pump immediately or 60k miles ?
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03-16-2016, 09:27 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster
This subject comes up often but seldom are there detailed explanations of why metal/plastic is the best choice.The threads deteriorate just like the oil chioice threads.Not helpful. I have the curse of an inquiring mind so here are a few details that others may add to/correct.
1.The aluminum blades will only score/abrade the w/p housing if you neglect a worn bearing.
2.The plastic blades will also mark the housing if a wobbly bearing is neglected. More serious - the plastic blades can disintegrate (but why-age/heat??). You will need to dismantle the entire engine to retrieve all the little pieces .Why? Because they block the coolant passages & then......Just done that job!
So pick your poison.
Best suggestion whichever you choose - is watch for coolant leaks from the w/p or noises and replace the pump immediately or 60k miles ?
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Great info. And the first post to suggest using the metal impeller pump might not be a horrible idea... I agree with the overall idea of keeping an eye on it and not letting it get to be an issue either way...
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2003 Boxster S
2004 Carrera Cab
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03-16-2016, 09:41 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myoung73
Great info. And the first post to suggest using the metal impeller pump might not be a horrible idea... I agree with the overall idea of keeping an eye on it and not letting it get to be an issue either way...
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Actually, it is a horrible idea. A metal impeller pump can do serious and permanent damage to the engine cases, filling the entire cooling system with fine metal that is difficult to remove without taking the engine apart, and even then will result in reduced cooling capabilities because the space between the pump impeller and the cases is now too large to facilitate proper coolant circulation. Bad idea all around.
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“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-16-2016, 09:59 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,029
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I always defer to experienced advice. Plastic it is !
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03-16-2016, 10:12 AM
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#16
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There Is No Substitute.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 3,253
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A failing water pump will most likely make contact with the engine case, not just the WP housing. Just look at a picture of the WP, it's a giant spinning blade directly facing the engine casing.
Here are the basics of the metal vs plastic impeller argument:
-With a plastic impeller, if it fails, the plastic makes contact with the engine case and tends to break off in chucks, which normally get trapped in the radiators or oil cooler (not ideal). Since it is plastic vs metal, their is essentially no damage to the engine casing.
-With a metal impeller, you get fine metal particles that circulate through the system freely, and hole bored into the side of the engine.
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1999 Ocean Blue Metallic Boxster - blueboxster.com
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03-16-2016, 10:52 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: LB, Germany
Posts: 1,507
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If a failing water pump with metal impeller grinds into the case house, you'll have metal in your water system - means water cooler and hoses.
Not in the engine oil system or inside any moving parts or bearings! It's just in the water channels or cooling lines or water coolers.
Same to plastic parts.
The question is: are fine metal parts better or not so fine plastic parts.
After some thinking i would prefer fine metal parts.
Regards, Markus
Last edited by Smallblock454; 03-16-2016 at 10:55 AM.
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03-16-2016, 11:15 AM
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#18
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Motorist & Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 3,840
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__________________
I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
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03-16-2016, 11:51 AM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: FL
Posts: 4,144
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I think I saw one that had a brass impellor - is brass softer than aluminum? I don't want to be the one to find out - I went with the Pierburg when I did mine.
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03-16-2016, 12:28 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallblock454
If a failing water pump with metal impeller grinds into the case house, you'll have metal in your water system - means water cooler and hoses.
Not in the engine oil system or inside any moving parts or bearings! It's just in the water channels or cooling lines or water coolers.
Same to plastic parts.
The question is: are fine metal parts better or not so fine plastic parts.
After some thinking i would prefer fine metal parts.
Regards, Markus
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They both can block critical small passages, leading to hot spots. The major difference between the two is the permanent case damage metal impellers can do, which leads to cooling problems even after everything is cleaned out. Clean out the plastic, install a new pump, and it is as though nothing happened.
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“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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