Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-14-2015, 04:59 PM   #1
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,294
Garage
Dropped engine sump today

Well I drained all the Mobil 1 0W-40 today from my first oil change. This oil had 4000 miles on it. I also dropped the sump to check for any metal and debris. This is a 98 with 84,800 miles on the clock. I did not find any metal in sump, only the 11 dark brown plastic chips. I believe this is from the chain tensioner ramps, correct? The oil pump pickup screen is also clean. I will be using Castrol Edge 10W-40 per the advice of the forum. Any thoughts or recommendations guys? Really appreciate all the great responses from this forum.

911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:43 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,012
Monty,
I won't respond the oil choice issue because that is usually a controversial 'faith' issue :-).
I am doing an M96 rebuild now and also found chain ramp particles like yours in the sump -and elsewhere ! I would be concerned they could bypass the OEM oil filter and plug an oilway. There are some vital but very tiny oil ways in the M96 .The OEM filter does not filter 100% of the oil all the time.
I suggest you ask for opinions about fitting the LN Filter adapter even if you are going to replace the chain ramps. It does filter the oil 1005 of the time.
Porsche Boxster (1997-2004) - Oil Circulation - Page 1
LN Part #: 10-0237-008
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 06:30 PM   #3
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,294
Garage
Thanks Gelbster! I was trying to be very careful to not start another oil thread. I guess I should have said I have already installed the LN adapter and run the NAPA gold filter with filter mag. Oh There is a lot of knowledge and mistake avoidance that can be gained by searching and reading this forum!
911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 10:01 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
So what's the consensus of the quantity / size / composition of the plastic debris?
Is this normal for a 85,000 mile engine fitted with the early design chain tensioner ramps, because looking closely at the chips they are about the size of a matchhead or less?
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 04:23 AM   #5
Registered User
 
kk2002s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: S. New Jersey
Posts: 1,220
Garage
I dropped my sump last spring and was very pleased no debris. That was at 70k miles
Don't know if it was ever done before.
I have original canister filter so I do see a few tiny plastic specs occasionally. Much smaller than those in your sump
I am going to upgrade to LN screw on this spring and probably drop the sump again.
--NOTE: Can the Screw on filters be cut apart to see what's being filtered??

If you are using locktite 5900 sealant, get it warm, it can be really hard to push and maintain a small controlled bead. I soaked in hot water but it was still hard to push out
I put the bead on the engine side and laying under the car trying to push the stuff up was excruciatingly painful.
Next time I'm putting on the sump side as that is such a better working surface.
Just mark where the to surfaces Mate as the sump does have over hangs that don't contact the engine
__________________
2002 S - old school third pedal
Seal Grey
kk2002s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 04:48 AM   #6
recycledsixtie
 
recycledsixtie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Edmonton Canada
Posts: 824
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tinker View Post
So what's the consensus of the quantity / size / composition of the plastic debris?
Is this normal for a 85,000 mile engine fitted with the early design chain tensioner ramps, because looking closely at the chips they are about the size of a matchhead or less?
I am just about to send you a PM.
Guy
recycledsixtie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 07:39 AM   #7
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,294
Garage
Steve Tinker;
You are spot on with what I am interested in. These particles are much smaller than they appear in the pictures with the oil film on them. After I removed them and let dry on a paper towel for inspection they are approximately the size of a grain of salt. I do not know if this is the first time the sump was removed, no records were included in the purchase, so I am trying to establish a baseline to work from. This engine does have a start up rattle of about 1 second then about 6 lifter clicks before runs smooth and quiet, similar to some of my previous air cooled engines. This is the driver of switching to Castrol from Mobil 1. I know the 0W of the M1 should flow faster on cold start up but, I am thinking the better film strength of the Castrol may help prevent the tensioners relaxing . I suppose next step will be to check for cam deviation and possibly change the tensioners and or paddles.
KK2002S: I am using Locktite 518 and I will be putting on the pan.
Thanks guys and keep the replies coming.

Last edited by 911monty; 01-15-2015 at 07:44 AM.
911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 08:10 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,012
The chain ramp plastic debris problem is greater than the small size of the particles ?
If you've had an M96 apart ,you'll have seen how tiny and clog-prone some oilways are. One example- the oil squirters aimed at the underside of the pistons. One plastic particle would pass through that oilway under pressure. But if the particles accumulate and/or adhere with other contaminants/debris it could be the beginning of a lubrication related failure.
The best remedy is obvious - replace the offending ramps promptly and carefully monitor for debris in future.Better, replace them proacively before 70 k miles? But the time, the cost, you'll be without your car, it might not be a problem - yes all those excuses and more.
But what about the debris distributed elsewhere in the engine? In a conventional engine you could flush with a high detergent oil a few times. I doubt the experts would recommend that in the M96 ?
Gelbster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 08:32 AM   #9
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,294
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster View Post
The chain ramp plastic debris problem is greater than the small size of the particles ?
If you've had an M96 apart ,you'll have seen how tiny and clog-prone some oilways are. One example- the oil squirters aimed at the underside of the pistons. One plastic particle would pass through that oilway under pressure. But if the particles accumulate and/or adhere with other contaminants/debris it could be the beginning of a lubrication related failure.
The best remedy is obvious - replace the offending ramps promptly and carefully monitor for debris in future.Better, replace them proacively before 70 k miles? But the time, the cost, you'll be without your car, it might not be a problem - yes all those excuses and more.
But what about the debris distributed elsewhere in the engine? In a conventional engine you could flush with a high detergent oil a few times. I doubt the experts would recommend that in the M96 ?
I will have more info on chain ramp condition once I open up the filter today. Since I have the LN adapter I should see 100% of the circulating debris. The car is not a daily driver, unless the weather is nice! I also enjoy the mechanical pursuit. However if I go so far as ramps and tensioners then I might just change the IMS and clutch ? As far as engine flush is concerned, and I am probably wrong, but I believe according to what Jake has written, the lifters are at the end of the oil galleries and would likely fill with the debris being flushed? This is only my interpretation to what I think I read. My apologies to Jake if I am incorrect.
911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 03:43 PM   #10
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,294
Garage
Okay, so I cut open the oil filter, there were 2 more pieces of chain ramp in there. That's a lot better than I was expecting! However while down there I pulled the engine serial number 2065X24614, Is this a reman engine???
911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 04:19 PM   #11
Reebuck1
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 210
Garage
Ramps

Pull your valve covers and look at your ramps to be sure !
Reebuck1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 04:22 PM   #12
Registered User
 
jsceash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,424
Garage
You Have M96.20 1999 2.5 engine #24,614 0f 60,000
__________________
2003 Black 986. modified for Advanced level HPDE and open track days.
* 3.6L LN block, 06 heads, Carrillo H rods, IDP with 987 intake, Oil mods, LN IMS. * Spec II Clutch, 3.2L S Spec P-P FW. * D2 shocks, GT3 arms & and links, Spacers front and rear * Weight reduced, No carpet, AC deleted, Remote PS pump, PS pump deleted. Recaro Pole position seats, Brey crouse ext. 5 point harness, NHP sport exhaust
jsceash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 04:38 PM   #13
Registered User
 
911monty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: California Central Coast
Posts: 1,294
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsceash View Post
You Have M96.20 1999 2.5 engine #24,614 0f 60,000
Thanks for the reply. My car is a 98. Is a 99 engine possible?
911monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 04:52 PM   #14
Registered User
 
jsceash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,424
Garage
I can't answer that. 2065W***** Would have be a 1998. I would suspect it was replaced at some point.

__________________
2003 Black 986. modified for Advanced level HPDE and open track days.
* 3.6L LN block, 06 heads, Carrillo H rods, IDP with 987 intake, Oil mods, LN IMS. * Spec II Clutch, 3.2L S Spec P-P FW. * D2 shocks, GT3 arms & and links, Spacers front and rear * Weight reduced, No carpet, AC deleted, Remote PS pump, PS pump deleted. Recaro Pole position seats, Brey crouse ext. 5 point harness, NHP sport exhaust
jsceash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page