IMS bearing removal without special tool?? - Page 3 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Jamesp · 02-18-2015, 03:12 PM

It looks like you're all over it. The small square notch on the pulley is in the right place. I'd be inclined to think there may be crud in the hole, or the key is a little bit off or too big rather than think the hole is not not there. I saw somewhere that an 8 mm drill bit fits, so if that's an 8 mm key, it may be be too big. The real key is to be at TDC to unload the camshafts, and you're there. As far as unloading the cams is concerned you don't have to be perfect, a degree or so won't make a difference. If I can find a picture of the third tensioner, I'll post it here, and yes, that's a challenge to everyone else to see who can post it first.

Jamesp · 02-18-2015, 03:36 PM

Well, it is challenging, but here it is, under the AC compressor mount just above the center of the picture. That's why it's hard to find.

Meir · 02-18-2015, 04:44 PM

If you are only looking to replace the IMSB, you do not have to remove the 3rd tensioner. If your plan is to replace it, then go for it.
8 mm dril bit for the pulley is the way to go. As James said, you are not far off.
In fact, on you second picture you can see the boss behind the pully.
Look like you need to turn it a notch counterclockwise.

Good luck.

PorscheFan5 · 02-18-2015, 09:09 PM

James and Meir,

I did use a small size hex like a 3mm but still could not find the hole.

On you point of pulley being slightly off...I think you meant go slightly clockwise, correct? The correct rotation of the pulley is clockwise, correct? Is it ok to rotate the pulley at this stage where I have removed the 2 tensioners and not removed the 3Rd?

Also, can I go ahead and remove the flange and replace the IMSB without removing the 3Rd tensioners?

Thanks for the picture, will check in the car with the picture tomorrow.

Jamesp · 02-19-2015, 02:48 AM

You might get a dental mirror and a light to inspect the boss through the hole, there may be something in the hole. Wiggling the crankshaft back and forth for alignment should not be a problem. You can get cheap dental mirrors at the local drug store.

PorscheFan5 · 02-20-2015, 08:14 AM

James,

I will try that this weekend. Perhaps best would be to put my endoscope there and see. The endoscope has LEDs that will help see in the dark there.

Immobilizing the crank with the plate in the back on flywheel end does not secure it enough, eh?

I know I have an IMSB issue as the nut with part of the bolt has fallen off. Just waiting to see how bad it is and how I can take the bearing out...:-)

And then after that to the next problem...the loose Cam covers that the POs Porsche dealer left loose when they gave it back to him...:-) Doesn't get any better, huh?

Thanks for all your kind help in advance! Will do my part and post pictures!

JFP in PA · 02-20-2015, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

James,

I will try that this weekend. Perhaps best would be to put my endoscope there and see. The endoscope has LEDs that will help see in the dark there.

Immobilizing the crank with the plate in the back on flywheel end does not secure it enough, eh?

I know I have an IMSB issue as the nut with part of the bolt has fallen off. Just waiting to see how bad it is and how I can take the bearing out...:-)

And then after that to the next problem...the loose Cam covers that the POs Porsche dealer left loose when they gave it back to him...:-) Doesn't get any better, huh?

Thanks for all your kind help in advance! Will do my part and post pictures!

As you are going to be removing the flywheel, securing it will not help you. You need to get that pin inserted in the crank pulley.

PorscheFan5 · 02-20-2015, 10:39 AM

JFP,

I was talking about securing the crank with the engine case. The flywheel is already removed. This is if I am not able to get the pin in, just in case.

All,

Seperate question thinking positively ahead... Is using the Pelican single row bearing kit of $165 ok? Reviews seem to be good. Please advise.

Thanks,

Mahendra

Meir · 02-20-2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

James and Meir,

I did use a small size hex like a 3mm but still could not find the hole.

On you point of pulley being slightly off...I think you meant go slightly clockwise, correct? The correct rotation of the pulley is clockwise, correct? Is it ok to rotate the pulley at this stage where I have removed the 2 tensioners and not removed the 3Rd?

Also, can I go ahead and remove the flange and replace the IMSB without removing the 3Rd tensioners?

Thanks for the picture, will check in the car with the picture tomorrow.

it is correct.
the correct rotation of the pulley is clockwise, but if you passed the exact TDC point you can turn it a bit back or do a full rotation again.
i will never rotate the crank with the tensioners removed.
the reason for removing the tensioners, is to relief the pressure from the shaft on the bearing side. the third tensioner is on the opposite side so it doesn't have a large affects on the shaft centering point.

JFP in PA · 02-20-2015, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meir

"but if you passed the exact TDC point you can turn it a bit back"

Never rotate one of these engines backwards; even a small amount of rotation is a bad idea. If you miss TDC, go around again.

PorscheFan5 · 02-20-2015, 11:21 AM

Understood: never rotate engine backwards but can go around again.

Question is can I rotate the engine clockwise now with the two tensioners removed? Any issues there?

Also no one answered the question on whether securing the crank to the engine case from the back of the engine will suffice or do I have to make sure I get the locking pin into the crank pulley/case.

And...is the Pelican bearing kit ok to use...

Thanks.

JFP in PA · 02-20-2015, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

Understood: never rotate engine backwards but can go around again.

Question is can I rotate the engine clockwise now with the two tensioners removed? Any issues there?

Also no one answered the question on whether securing the crank to the engine case from the back of the engine will suffice or do I have to make sure I get the locking pin into the crank pulley/case.

And...is the Pelican bearing kit ok to use...

Thanks.

I would not rotate the engine with the tensioners out; bad idea.

I do not like the idea of using the back flange of the crank to hold the engine as it blocks you from replacing the RMS while you have the car apart. Use the pulley.

While this may bring the powers that be down on me, the Pelican kit is one of the last on earth I would use. Go with an LN ceramic update if it is a dual row, the IMS Solution if it is a single row engine and you can afford it, otherwise consider either the LN single row or Pro update.

PorscheFan5 · 02-24-2015, 01:35 PM

Sorry for taking time to provide an update. The family and work does not leave much time to work on my Boxster...

I do have an update but it is not good...:-(

1. The hole in the case behind the crank pulley was fine. My hex key was going in about 2 inches and that is about as much it can go. I put my endoscope in there and could easily see the hole that the key was going in. So I was locked alright.

2. Now come the bad part...I was able to get the IMSB flange out with some difficulty but using 2 pry bars as recommended. When I took the flange out, it seems that the bearing fell apart right there as if it was being held by the last straw!

-- I could see all the balls right there
-- The inner race came out with the flange and the broken bolt
-- The outer race is stuck in the IMS. I cannot see the snap ring...perhaps it is the one around the flange? Or it is welded to the outer race due to the heat generated...?

The only way to take the bearing's outer race out is perhaps to weld a washer with 3/8th bolt that can then be pulled with the bearing puller. See last pic.

Here are the new set of questions:

1. Will the bearing come out with this method?
2. Do you'll think the snap ring is welded into the outer race? If so the bearing will not come out..
3. If I do get the outer race out by some miracle...is it going to be possible to replace the new bearing? Will the IMS be round?
4. Is this all worth trying? I have nothing to loose in trying. If it works, fine, or else I will continue with my original project and ditch the engine and start working on the electric conversion?

5. I will still have the resealing of the cam covers to deal (since the dealer left the cam covers loose!) with before I could have a prayer of testing the engine...

This is becoming exciting, depressing, challenging all at the same time...

Thanks for continuing to be involved.

Reebuck1 · 02-24-2015, 01:54 PM

I think you don't need to worry about getting the bearing out now. The whole motor needs to now come apart in order to determine how much damage was done. Even if all the parts are good the case and all passages need thoroughly cleaned.

flaps10 · 02-24-2015, 02:45 PM

Wow, yeah: That's a tear down.

You don't see the snap ring because that's a two row bearing (you know, the kind that almost never fail).

I agree that how to pull the outer part is redundant, the case needs to come apart. The outer race will just fall out then.

PorscheFan5 · 02-24-2015, 03:44 PM

What do other members think?

The 2nd picture of the flange seems to be like a inner race of a single row bearing...How many balls does the single row and double row bearing have? I have 8 balls. Am I missing some?

BTW, I have a 2004 Boxster base model (non-S)

Appreciate others weighing in too. Thanks!

JFP in PA · 02-24-2015, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

What do other members think?

Appreciate others weighing in too. Thanks!

The engine needs to come out and apart .

Jamesp · 02-24-2015, 06:09 PM

I had nearly the identical failure. The engine needs to be removed, the case split, and the IMS shaft ($500 on Ebay if you can find them, which is rare) and bearing replaced, along with lots of other ancillary parts. Make sure to get the right IMS if you go that way. Additionally the case halves need to be ultrasonically cleaned, and the heads, might as well rebuild those, the chain tensioners likely have glitter in them, the chain tensioners have filings driven into the plastic, etc., etc.

So you're looking at about $2000 to $2500 in new parts without rings, or lifters and a boatload of work because for those dollars you're doing it all yourself. The engine really is a boat anchor at this point if you're going electric anyway. Putting time and money into the electric conversion seems like a reasonable path instead of chasing a nearly irrevocably dead engine. Sorry to see that, but it may serve to bring the electric conversion project into focus. best of luck!

Jamesp · 02-24-2015, 06:11 PM

Oh, and you have a single row Bearing if it's a 2004.

Jake Raby · 02-24-2015, 06:16 PM

You have collateral damage that you can't see. I promise you of this.

Please don't try to extract the bearing race and retrofit, and if you do, please use a competing product.

Between collateral damage and debris laden oil thats been circulating through the engine, changes of a waste of time and money are both great.