IMS bearing removal without special tool??

[PorscheFan5]

James and Team,

Any suggestions on how to remove a stuck IMS Bearing cover? See attached pic. There was no oil leaking but the cover is a bit rusted and not budging with a set of flat screw drivers. As you can see I most likely have IMS bearing issues as the nut and part of the bolt have fallen off.

Since I don't have the tool for removing the cover that the Porsche technicians have I have to devise something to help me remove the cover to get to the bearing...

Any help will be much appreciated.


PS. I have also posted this request in the TX removal thread that I was part of as I had asked the question on how tight the TX bolts can be expected to be. Got the TX out without any damage...now the cover...one small step at a time...

[flaps10]

I might remove the three bolts holding the cover on. Probably speed things up quite a bit

[PorscheFan5]

...Removing the cover after removing the star bolts of course...

[spendy]

You might want to try tapping sideways on the 3 ears with a hammer to rotate the cover. That might break it loose and make it easier to pry.

[PorscheFan5]

Thanks Spendy.

Looking at another picture posted by nmdarby that was my exact thought today morning. Will try that. It seems the surface is flat so twisting it in its vertical plane will at least break it loose and also then provide me with a surface to get the screw drivers under to pry it off.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

...Removing the cover after removing the star bolts of course...

OK, after all that has gone on with bad IMS replacements lately, I have to ask: You do have the engine at TDC, cams locked down, and the tensioners removed before starting this?

[PorscheFan5]

I understsand. I have seen and read all the articles. At this time I want to open the cover and see the condition of the bearing. Before I start removing the bearing, I will order the tools and all the stuff needed and get the engine at TDC before attempting to remove the bearing. Can I remove the cam covers (without engine at TDC and all) without messing anything up? I just want to see if I see metal in there...

Looks like I will have to go through hoops to get the bearing out, given that the nut and part of the bolt are out...

Thanks for checking on that JFP...

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

I understsand. I have seen and read all the articles. At this time I want to open the cover and see the condition of the bearing. Before I start removing the bearing, I will order the tools and all the stuff needed and get the engine at TDC before attempting to remove the bearing. Can I remove the cam covers (without engine at TDC and all) without messing anything up? I just want to see if I see metal in there...

Looks like I will have to go through hoops to get the bearing out, given that the nut and part of the bolt are out...

Thanks for checking on that JFP...

That is exactly what I thought, you cannot remove the bearing flange cover without doing everything I described; the tensioner load is what is holding the cover. And be glad it did hold it, if you had gotten the cover off, you would have been screwed when the shaft suddenly jumped to one side with the engine not at TDC and the cams not locked. Really bad move........ If I were you, I would reinstall the flange cover bolts before something really stupid happens and until you get the tools to do this properly.

If you want to know the condition of the bearing, drain the oil and remove the sump cover; that is where all the debris will settle.

[PorscheFan5]

Ah. Thanks JFP. Will get the tools asap.

I did remove the sump and did find small metal particles in the sump.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

That is exactly what I thought, you cannot remove the bearing flange cover without doing everything I described; the tensioner load is what is holding the cover. And be glad it did hold it, if you had gotten the cover off, you would have been screwed when the shaft suddenly jumped to one side with the engine not at TDC and the cams not locked. Really bad move........ If I were you, I would reinstall the flange cover bolts before something really stupid happens and until you get the tools to do this properly.

If you want to know the condition of the bearing, drain the oil and remove the sump cover; that is where all the debris will settle.

Do what he say.....
you dodged a bullet

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

Ah. Thanks JFP. Will get the tools asap.

I did remove the sump and did find small metal particles in the sump.

If the metal in the sump is ferrous (can be picked up by a magnet), that engine is no longer a viable candidate for an IMS update. If there is ferrous grit in the sump, it is also elsewhere in the engine and will circulate with the oil, killing your new $600+ bearing.

Either plan on doing a total rebuild, or source a replacement.

[Jamesp]

So, as I often do, I'm about to speak heresy. You are likely to find some ferrous dust in your oil, it's called wear. If it looks like someone has been running a metal lathe in your engine and you've got chips, that's real trouble. If its a little dust chalk it up to an old engine and soldier on. I use magnets strapped to my oil filter so pull out that fine dust and they do collect some. I would not replace a sealed bearing with an open bearing in an engine with any metal in the oil as metal carried into the bearing with the oil will kill it. That's one reason I chose to go back with a fully sealed greased bearing after my daily driver had an IMSB failure. I had to do a complete rebuild as the intermediate shaft was toast as was the bearing and bearing cover - all sourced through E-bay for about $450. Expect to replace any bearing you put in as a maintenance item. I'll change mine out in another 10k miles or so just to see what it looks like and to see if the modification I made to the intermediate shaft was effective in keeping the grease in the bearing.

Also - good for you on not getting the bearing cover off with the engine not set to TDC. when you get back to it, after the engine is set to TDC, look closely at the IMS bearing cover tabs, there should be a relief machined in for the Porsche tool that you can get a screwdriver in to gently pry, do each tab a little at a time.

[PorscheFan5]

JFP, James and others,

I consciously bought a 2004 Boxster with a 'busted/blown' engine as I wanted to start a project to convert it to an Electric vehicle... Yes, I know it is a big project but I will take my time with it and have already acquired parts on the Electric side of things from another fellow who had converted a 911. Long story...one for another thread that I may start.

I spoke the PO and he indicated that the vehicle died at the traffic light and when he restarted it he heard the metal noise and shut it down and took it to the dealer (Classic IMSB failure sound it seems). The dealer checked it over and told him that they had to do more diagnostic, most likely the engine needs to be replaced, and price for the kit will be between 18K and 24K. PO decided he was not going to do that and took the car back and sold it as-is (which I bought).

After I got the vehicle and reading up about the IMSB failures in Boxsters I (got greedy if you will) thought let me try and see if I can salvage the engine and drive it with the gas engine for a bit to get to know the car before I convert it. Hence my effort and earlier posts.

Thanks for your pointers and I will be careful as I get the engine to TDC, hold it there and remove the IMS flange to see the situation with the bearing. If it is salvageable I will replace the bearing using the right tools.

Having removed the rear parts including the TX, as I looked over the engine, I see that the dealership that the PO took it to have removed and replaced (rnr) the Cam Covers. See attached pics where you can see loose bolts on the Cams and also Coil 1. My questions are these:

-- Is anything missing there as much as you can tell from the pics? In pic 3 are those the Chain tensioners that are protruding down? Are the tensioners (the things we remove to loosend the tension on the Cams/chains) missing? I have to get my bearings properly on the components of the engine...
-- Since I will be getting the engine to TDC to remove the IMSB, does it make sense to remove and reseal the Cam covers at the same time? Or I should handle the two separately? I already have the Loctite 5900 that I bought to reseal the Oil Pan/sump and it works well. I know the tool for locking and holding the Cams are different as stated by some people on the threads...Note there is no oil in the engine at this time and what you see is the residual oil leaking from the engine...

My plan/thought is that if the engine is too much work that I cannot handle as DIY, I will just forget about it and just remove it and continue with my electric project. However I want to do my best and see if I can make the engine work. In the process I don't mind spending some money and my time. I am in no hurry and get to (love to) work on it in the weekends.







Appreciate your review and suggestions...

[JFP in PA]

Photo 3 looks like the hole for one of the tensioners, but the tensioner is missing (not unexpected when a dealer is doing a diagnostic tear down to figure out what failed):



I'm not exactly sure where you are thinking on going with this, but if the IMS has failed, you cannot just install a new one and retime the cams. The engine will be full of fine metallic grit, the cams have probably jumped time, and some of the valves are probably bent as well.

That engine needs a complete tear down and rebuild.

[PorscheFan5]

Hi JFP,

Thanks for posting that pic. Yes, the tensioner on both sides are missing that means. In the weekend I will check around more.

For my electric conversion project I have to remove the engine so I am not taking any detours. I just want to take one step at a time on the engine. At this time I want to see what the bearing looks like and go from there. Once I remove the IMSB flange I will know better. This Cam cover thing is what I just observed as things are more clearer now that all the parts in the rear are off and I am getting more familiar with the parts...

I have also put in a call to the technician at the dealership who worked on the car. Let's see if he calls back tomorrow and I can ask him what he found when he removed the Cams...

[Jamesp]

from what I can see in photo 3 that is not a missing chain tensioner. The engine is symmetrical up to the point of casting in bosses that are machined on one side and not the other. The boss in picture 3 is on the right head and doesn't do anything. The same boss on the left head is machined and has a chain tensioner in it,

[PorscheFan5]

Thanks guys. Few more questions:

1. I finally have some time to work on the car today afternoon. I found 2 tensioners - one horizontal on drivers side to the rear of the engine jutting out (1 ring), 2nd on passenger side jutting down (2 rings) - where is the third one (3 rings)?

2. When I turn the crank and get cylinder 1 to the top and crank marks matching for TDC, the locking pin in the tear drop hole in the crank is not going in. Am I missing something? I tried all the three holes, no luck. Before you ask how I know cylinder/piston 1 is at the top; I have taken out all the spark plugs and put in an endoscope in cylinder 1 where I can see the piston coming all the way up and the TDC marks on crank matches with the mark on case. I should be at TDC, correct?

Just want to make sure before I lock the crank on the rear with a plate, lock cams and try to pull the IMS flange.

[Meir]

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

Thanks guys. Few more questions:

1. I finally have some time to work on the car today afternoon. I found 2 tensioners - one horizontal on drivers side to the rear of the engine jutting out (1 ring), 2nd on passenger side jutting down (2 rings) - where is the third one (3 rings)?

2. When I turn the crank and get cylinder 1 to the top and crank marks matching for TDC, the locking pin in the tear drop hole in the crank is not going in. Am I missing something? I tried all the three holes, no luck. Before you ask how I know cylinder/piston 1 is at the top; I have taken out all the spark plugs and put in an endoscope in cylinder 1 where I can see the piston coming all the way up and the TDC marks on crank matches with the mark on case. I should be at TDC, correct?

Just want to make sure before I lock the crank on the rear with a plate, lock cams and try to pull the IMS flange.

1. The third tensioner is located on the top of the engine at the opposite side, just behind the AC compressor.
2. Looks like you got TDC. a 8mm pin should go thru the hole with no issue.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by PorscheFan5

Thanks guys. Few more questions:

1. I finally have some time to work on the car today afternoon. I found 2 tensioners - one horizontal on drivers side to the rear of the engine jutting out (1 ring), 2nd on passenger side jutting down (2 rings) - where is the third one (3 rings)?

2. When I turn the crank and get cylinder 1 to the top and crank marks matching for TDC, the locking pin in the tear drop hole in the crank is not going in. Am I missing something? I tried all the three holes, no luck. Before you ask how I know cylinder/piston 1 is at the top; I have taken out all the spark plugs and put in an endoscope in cylinder 1 where I can see the piston coming all the way up and the TDC marks on crank matches with the mark on case. I should be at TDC, correct?

Just want to make sure before I lock the crank on the rear with a plate, lock cams and try to pull the IMS flange.

Once at TDC, there is a counter bored boss in the block under the TDC hole in the crank pulley. Make sure the dowel your using isn't to large in diameter to fit in the counter bore. Alignment between the hole in the pulley and the counter bore in the block has to be precise.

[PorscheFan5]

James,

Attached is the pic of the crank pulley at TDC. If you look at the other pic, I cant get the hex key in to lock the pulley. I even tried with a smaller size key and lightly groped around in case I was slightly to one side but with no luck. How can there be no hole at the back in case?

What am I missing? I want to make sure I go slow and steady and not make any mistakes.

Secondly, if I was to lock the crankshaft with the stock plate with the holes in the engine case on the back of the engine (flywheel side), does that not lock the crankshaft properly since it is the same solid crankshaft from front to back? I am trying to understand if locking with the plate be enough if I cannot get the locking pin in the pulley in the front for some reason...

Also does anyone have a picture of where the 3rd tensioner is located near the airconditioner? A picture would help me locate it better to remove it before I proceed any further.

Thanks!