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Old 08-11-2014, 08:24 PM   #61
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Prosecution? No...

The kid got OUT OF HIS CAR! Dumb, rookie move, and then he compounded it by running down the track INTO THE RACING LINE! Stewart was (is) an idiot to even be in that race with a bunch of nobodies racing for peanuts, but hey!, he loves to race and it cost him.

This probably cost him big time, (rightly so) but he's gonna clear this incident no problem.
Bottom line, the hot headed kid f****d up big time, and he paid the price. Nobody is gonna' pull that stunt again....

Hans

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Old 08-12-2014, 05:02 AM   #62
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I'm reading these comments and began to wonder how many making the remarks have ever been at a dirt track ever. During the course of qualifiers and heats a bumper or curb gets built up through the entire track above and below the race line. Driver will avoid these at all time including during cautions. They are at least a lane up from the bottom of the track, and about a lane down from the top wall, it can be as high as a foot on some tracks. Second the sprint cars run serious stagger to the right rear, meaning the car is wider to the right rear than any other point on the car. Last if the car and driver are within a 100 feet of another car you are being drenched in dust and bits of mud, so it's very hard to keep good clear vision. If you've been at one of these even there are hundreds of tear off sheets floating around the track usually as many as one per drive per lap. I've been at this track really bad bumpers they don't maintain them during the race. Not a big TS fan but he was not that high on the track compared to where the bumper builds up. The kid RAN down in front of him at least three car lanes I was very surprised the car before TS didn't hit him.
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:45 AM   #63
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^but then how were cars able stay to the inside? And why wasn't Stewart one of them?

Either you're making every effort to stay from the disabled car, or you aren't.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:46 AM   #64
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^but then how were cars able stay to the inside? And why wasn't Stewart one of them?

Either you're making every effort to stay from the disabled car, or you aren't.
From everything I've seen and read, TS is a hothead and full of himself. I really think he went high on the track simply to gloat over his crashed 'colleague' but did not realize that that same colleague had gotten out of the car and was on the track. KW should NOT have been on the track - he certainly put himself in a very dangerous situation, but TS should NOT have been running higher on the track and jeopardizing safety. There's lots of blame to go around - both KW and TS share a big chunk of it.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:56 AM   #65
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From everything I've seen and read, TS is a hothead and full of himself. I really think he went high on the track simply to gloat over his crashed 'colleague' but did not realize that that same colleague had gotten out of the car and was on the track. KW should NOT have been on the track - he certainly put himself in a very dangerous situation, but TS should NOT have been running higher on the track and jeopardizing safety. There's lots of blame to go around - both KW and TS share a big chunk of it.
I wholeheartedly agree. If the kid stays in his car he lives. But again he's a kid, not a 43 year-old veteran NASCAR driver. Which of us at the age of 20 weren't taking huge risks? Under ~25 you're brain doesn't yet have that full frontal lobe development that is key in running from danger instead of towards it.

The $64k question is a simple one. Did TS see the kid on the track when he had to choose between going to the inside like the other cars that managed this?
If he saw the kid, and went high he's criminally negligent. And really the only thing that can somewhat answer that question is his onboard video.
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Old 08-12-2014, 07:03 AM   #66
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From everything I've seen and read, TS is a hothead and full of himself. I really think he went high on the track simply to gloat over his crashed 'colleague' but did not realize that that same colleague had gotten out of the car and was on the track. KW should NOT have been on the track - he certainly put himself in a very dangerous situation, but TS should NOT have been running higher on the track and jeopardizing safety. There's lots of blame to go around - both KW and TS share a big chunk of it.
Well said. Seems in racing you're watching the car in front, not scanning the whole picture like we do driving on the road through intersections with pedestrians.

SURPRISE!! SOMEONE IS ON THE TRACK!!!

May have been a high pass to gloat not even knowing KW was out of his car.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:24 AM   #67
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Updates show that many of the dirt tracks are implementing rules that prohibit the driver from leaving the car after an accident until emergency crew arrive. With fine and suspensions to follow anyone who does not comply. Nascar itself is expected to put a rule in place as early as today during their post race meeting.

Seems a shame that the rules get adjusted after something tragic happens and not before.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:37 AM   #68
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Updates show that many of the dirt tracks are implementing rules that prohibit the driver from leaving the car after an accident until emergency crew arrive. With fine and suspensions to follow anyone who does not comply. Nascar itself is expected to put a rule in place as early as today during their post race meeting.

Seems a shame that the rules get adjusted after something tragic happens and not before.
20-20 hindsight
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:50 AM   #69
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Fwiw

I think everything that can be said has been said about this tragedy
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:52 AM   #70
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While its premature to condemn him as sharing in the guilt its also unfair to the deceased. To claim his death was entirely his own fault the way this Sheriff has.
Presumably, the Sherriff has the most information. He was able to review the videotape, interview the witnesses, and interview Tony Stewart himself, all under the rules of a police investigation.

And again, presumably, the police investigation was conducted without bias.

Thus, the Sherriff's conclusions are (at this point) the best and fairest evaluation of the evidence available.

Of course, this investigation was limited to whether a crime was committed, not liability or fault. The latter will have to be decided by lawyers and courts as in the Paul Walker case.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:08 AM   #71
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Of course, this investigation was limited to whether a crime was committed, not liability or fault. The latter will have to be decided by lawyers and courts as in the Paul Walker case.
and of course to no ones complete satisfaction
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:19 AM   #72
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Presumably, the Sherriff has the most information. He was able to review the videotape, interview the witnesses, and interview Tony Stewart himself, all under the rules of a police investigation.

And again, presumably, the police investigation was conducted without bias.

Thus, the Sherriff's conclusions are (at this point) the best and fairest evaluation of the evidence available.

Of course, this investigation was limited to whether a crime was committed, not liability or fault. The latter will have to be decided by lawyers and courts as in the Paul Walker case.
Yes but it was too early for the Sheriff to announce a conclusion in the first place. The video that they have was reviewed and didn't move him, which is different than all the video that is possibly out there. All statements have not been taken, all the equipment in question has not been analyzed by experts in the field. And to make such a premature statement publicly where potential jurors may be watching is really a dumb idea.

This is the point where someone in his capacity would simply say "I will not speculate as this is an on-going investigation." It's been done a thousand times.
I can't think of another instance in fact where a Sheriff or Police Chief came out the day after, well before all the evidence was in. State's have limited resources and these inquiries take time.
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:38 AM   #73
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Well said. Seems in racing you're watching the car in front, not scanning the whole picture like we do driving on the road through intersections with pedestrians.
But they were under caution and no longer racing. You're supposed to be scanning for track workers removing the disabled video. that's why this tragedy really isn't a racing incident. Also, if Stewart has on-board video (there's talk it was deleted after the race), then it would show what was in TS' field of view. It would also presumably show if TS moved his steering to move away or toward the disabled car. If the deceased is clearly visible in the footage it will be very damaging.
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:48 AM   #74
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How fast do you suppose they were moving under caution?
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:19 AM   #75
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How fast do you suppose they were moving under caution?
I would guess probably about 45-55 mph.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:23 AM   #76
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But they were under caution and no longer racing. You're supposed to be scanning for track workers removing the disabled video. that's why this tragedy really isn't a racing incident.
Have you ever raced competitively wheel-to-wheel ?

A track under caution, is still a HOT TRACK, and therefore a "racing incident".

Sprint cars have very quirkey handling, tons of H.P. , and a hair trigger throttle. In several forums, from people who race them, it was proposed that he goosed it while flicking the steering to try and kick the rear tires away from the victim.
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:59 PM   #77
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A track under caution, is still a HOT TRACK, and therefore a "racing incident".
That's not what I meant. Of course it happened during a race but the drivers were not racing at the time of the fatality. And any weekend warrior or full time professional knows that when the race is under caution there are track workers on the HOT TRACK. In other words, SLOW DOWN AND KEEP AWAY from disabled vehicle. Do you think TS did the best job possible to slow down and keep away from Ward's car? Doesn't look that way to me.

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In several forums, from people who race them, it was proposed that he goosed it while flicking the steering to try and kick the rear tires away from the victim.
But why was he on high side of the track to begin with? At this point we can all see that other cars kept to the inside. What was Stewart doing up there? That question needs to answered.
And I suspect that many don't want to ask this question because they want to leave this as just an unfortunate tragedy.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:12 PM   #78
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I don't know the rules for local circle track racing, but in SCCA, under a yellow the requirement is to keep your car under control, and no passing. Racers often take that as 90%, pros around 99%. There is no black and white "go 35 MPH" or "pass on the extreme far edge of the track". TS was under no obligation to be ON the inside edge of the track. He was well clear of the car, the driver should have moved away from the racing surface, not into it.

I do agree that there should be strict rules against drivers exiting the car onto the racing surface for these ridiculous temper tantrums. In SCCA, you're told to stay belted in until directed by corner workers that the area is safe.
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:12 PM   #79
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Old 08-12-2014, 05:00 PM   #80
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Sprint Car racers give their take on tragedy and defend Tony Stewart | News | Motorsport.com

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