Dropped engine sump pan - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Last930 · 10-16-2013, 06:44 AM

Yesterday my mechanic removed the sump pan on the '04 Boxster S; to my delight it was spotless - not a spec of plastic, metal etc. It looks like the oil leak - which I had assumed was coming from the RMS - is actually coming from some place near the top of the engine. It is possible that something was missed or cracked during the AOS replacement when I first got the car.

The quandry now is do I go through with the hassle and expense of a new clutch, RMS and IMS bearing if the oil leak is not from the RMS? The clutch is a little hard to push in, but doesn't slip or chatter; car has 95K on it. I'm inclined to fix the oil leak then keep driving it as is and watch the oil filter for debris. I can live with the clutch, and hopefully if the IMS bearing has held up this long it probably turned out to be one of the good ones.

ganseg · 10-16-2013, 07:10 AM

Great to hear your sump pan was clean! What kind of use and maintenance has your car seen? The pros say our IMS bearings will fail, it is a matter of when. I have 120k on my S and it is a single row too.

Not an answer to your IMS question (because I have the same issue), but two other things related to your post. My clutch is harder to disengage/engage too. A service writer's first thought was that it is a bad "accumulator". It doesn't bother me enough to spend money on and I wishfully think maybe a higher performance clutch was installed by a prior owner - maybe they have stiffer springs.

On the AOS, I haven't seen people talking about them leaking externally, but since they have oil in them it is not to hard to imagine. But there shouldn't be enough oil going thru them to cause a persistent leak. I changed mine recently because of periodic smoke (once every 10+ cold starts) and didn't see evidence of my leak being from there. I have not had smoking since then and for my oil leak I am going to be changing the spark plug tubes since it is cheap and within my abilities.

FLAT64EVER · 10-16-2013, 07:12 AM

This decision is what every Boxster owner must make. I am of the camp of monitoring during regular oil changes and addressing when the clutch is due.

There are several options now to choose from and I believe we will see more options if not... more data available for existing options in the future.

my 2cents

your mileage may vary...

ganseg · 10-16-2013, 07:49 AM

I am checking the filter more often than every oil change. It is easy to pull down the oil filter housing, look at the filter. If you want to lose a 1/2 qt of oil you can poor out the filter housing or you can just keep it upright and save the oil. I plan to strap high strength magnets near the top of the filter housing so any metal will be more easily visible in the intra-oil change inspections. Spent $35 for the magnets and I have an extra housing if I ever mess this one up.

Perfectlap · 10-16-2013, 08:30 AM

This should be part of pre purchase inspection for really low mileage cars that have only seen once a year (or worse) oil changes. Oil filter can easily be swapped out before sale.

southernstar · 10-16-2013, 09:14 AM

Frankly, checking the oil filter for particulate matter should be a part of the PPI on any Boxster, regardless of mileage/oil change history.

The Radium King · 10-16-2013, 09:27 AM

failing aos causes vacuum. vacuum can collapse the accordion portion of the oil fill tube. tube cracks, leaks oil onto top of engine, especially when tossing the car around.

the difference between ims and clutch is that the ims may or may not fail, and costs a lot to replace. so, you have to assess your personal risk levels and decide if you want to risk-manage the issue. with a clutch, it is a wear item and will need replacing just like brake pads, tires and oil. so, typical approach is that if you've gone through the expense of dropping the transmission then may as well do the clutch, especially at 95k. I think rms is a red herring; Porsche sold the new m96 engines as an improvement over the old air cooled engines and, as such, shouldn't drip oil. rms may weep a bit of oil, so what. my rms is typically dry, but if I go and run at max rpm for the day at the track then i'll get a bit of oil from the crank spinning 7,200 time per minute.

otherwise, for the cost get an ebs oil sump baffle installed - better oil management, easy to install with the sump off, and replaces a few essential pieces of plastic in the engine with metal.

thstone · 10-16-2013, 11:55 AM

To replace the IMSB or not? That is the question.

Normally, I'd say that if the bearing made it to 95K miles, it is likley to last until the clutch needs replacement.

But clearly you are worried about it enough that you're checking the filter in between oil changes. In this situation, I'd say replace the IMS bearing as soon as possible. Boxster ownership should be gratifying and enjoyable, not a constant worry. Replace the bearing and sleep well again!

Last930 · 10-17-2013, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganseg

Great to hear your sump pan was clean! What kind of use and maintenance has your car seen? The pros say our IMS bearings will fail, it is a matter of when. I have 120k on my S and it is a single row too.

Not an answer to your IMS question (because I have the same issue), but two other things related to your post. My clutch is harder to disengage/engage too. A service writer's first thought was that it is a bad "accumulator". It doesn't bother me enough to spend money on and I wishfully think maybe a higher performance clutch was installed by a prior owner - maybe they have stiffer springs.

On the AOS, I haven't seen people talking about them leaking externally, but since they have oil in them it is not to hard to imagine. But there shouldn't be enough oil going thru them to cause a persistent leak. I changed mine recently because of periodic smoke (once every 10+ cold starts) and didn't see evidence of my leak being from there. I have not had smoking since then and for my oil leak I am going to be changing the spark plug tubes since it is cheap and within my abilities.

This car was a daily street driven car prior to my buying it. The prior owner drove 20+ miles each way to work so it got good and warmed up, saw a fair amount of hwy miles. No track driving, but he didn't baby it on the street. I would say he drove in enthusiastically! I got the maint records with the car and it appears to have gotten regular oil changes at 6-7000 miles average. Car got the normal 30,60,90k checkups at the dealer.

My plan is to fix the leaking o-ring near the AOS, also fix a few odds and ends(CV boot, seatbelt retractor, front tires, etc) and then drive it for awhile to make sure the oil leak stops. The clutch will need to be replaced at some point, but it's not slipping or chattering so I can live with it for a little while. I don't think these cars have a clutch accumulator like the Turbos btw. They do get hard to push in as they age is what I'm told, so I know it will need to be replaced in the future.

Thanks for all the input - I'll report back my results!

Dave R.

ganseg · 10-17-2013, 01:47 PM

The ussage sounds good given what I have heard about the IMS. My AOS had already been changed once and was an .04 version, which doesn't have the o-ring any more. Unfortunately you can't see the part number while it is in place. Oh well, i think the smoking is gone.

runjmc2 · 10-17-2013, 03:54 PM

Sorry if I missed it, but is that the original clutch? If so, I'd say replace it and the IMS as soon as you have the money. If you are going to keep the car until it's death you will son need a clutch anyway and the sooner you replace it the lower the cost and risk of an IMS failure. Simple call in my book.

Last930 · 10-17-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runjmc2

Sorry if I missed it, but is that the original clutch? If so, I'd say replace it and the IMS as soon as you have the money. If you are going to keep the car until it's death you will son need a clutch anyway and the sooner you replace it the lower the cost and risk of an IMS failure. Simple call in my book.

It is the original clutch. I'm not too worried about imminent IMS failure because there is no evidence of any debris from it in the filter or sump. That being said, it will get a new clutch, rms and ims bearing in the not too distant future.

Last930 · 10-21-2013, 06:23 AM

Got the car back over the weekend - new front tires, fixed torn CV boot, new seatbelt retractor to shut off warning light. Drives like a new car with new front P-Zeros - the old ones were very worn and scalloped on the inner edges and made a tremendous racket. Much more pleasant to drive now without the incredible noise from the old tires. Plan to drive for awhile and decide on the clutch, shifter, RMS and IMSB in the near future.