Go Back   986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Post Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2013, 12:30 AM   #1
haz
Registered User
 
haz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 325
OH NO!! Metal shavings in oil filter :(|

So I just now got a call from the work shop (I dropped my 2000 Boxster off for a small service this morning) and they said that they'd forund lots of metal shavings in the oil filter. I told them to call me, if they would find this, as I have read on these forums amongst other places that metal shavings is the first sign of an IMS failure.

SO: WHat the f@£k to do? Is there just one option? Which is to do the IMS bearing upgrade? Because the cheapest place I found quoted me $3300 for JUST the job

Have a great weekend you guys!

haz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 01:22 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
What to do, what to do......

#1 - Do you have confidence in the workshop inspecting the filter?? how long since it was changed ??
#2 - Go and look at the offending filter - determine how bad it is.
#3 - Is the metal in the filter ferrous (magnetic) or aluminium /white metal debris - this could be important.
#4 - If the filter debris is exessive, have the workshop remove the sump cover plate and inspect the inside - if the filter is full of metal, there could be more in the sump which could indicate where the failure occurred ....
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.

Last edited by Steve Tinker; 08-23-2013 at 01:25 AM.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 01:57 AM   #3
haz
Registered User
 
haz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 325
10.100 miles / 16.300 km (and 27 months) since last oilchange.

Note: I was the one who asked the mechanic to call me if he found some metal shavings in the filter.

I will post pics of the filter tonight.

What is the difference between aluminium / white etc shavings? What is from where?

Q: can a metal expert tell what sort of metal this is, and where it comes from? And in that way, tell me if the IMS failure is around the corner?
haz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 02:14 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
If the metal debris is non magnetic, there's a good chance that the big end /main bearings of the crankshaft have been compromised....
Run a magnet over the metal in the filter - if it stick to the magnet, its ferrous, which could be debris from the IMS ball bearing, timing chains / sprockets etc.
Even after 10,000 miles, there should be no metal (or plastic from the guide rails) in the filter - you need to determin the source of the failure asap.
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 02:57 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 1,746
If it were me, I would follow Steve's advice on checking the metal bits out then drop the sump pan to check. Secondly, start changing your oil more often (3,000 to 5,000 mile intervals). Lastly, $3300 is high for this job but your options in Norway may be limited vs. the states.

Post up high resolution pics of the debris found in the filter.
coreseller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 03:17 AM   #6
haz
Registered User
 
haz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 325
I will update you guys after I retrieve the car in 3 hours. I'll check with a magnet also in addition top posting high res pics.

PS: I have owned this Boxster since july 4.th and couldn\t change the oil before now, all shops have been closed for the summer.
haz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 04:17 AM   #7
Registered User
 
tanque55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: mexico
Posts: 173
2 years and 10K miles? Wow!
tanque55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 04:21 AM   #8
haz
Registered User
 
haz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 325
Wow what??
haz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 04:26 AM   #9
Rennzenn
 
j.fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,369
Garage
On the outside chance that you can get 3-4 ounces of oil, you can send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories for an oil analysis. This will tell you exactly what's in your oil.
j.fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 04:26 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Algonquin, Misarikwack
Posts: 710
.................................

Last edited by madmods; 08-29-2013 at 02:25 AM.
madmods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 04:47 AM   #11
haz
Registered User
 
haz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.fro View Post
On the outside chance that you can get 3-4 ounces of oil, you can send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories for an oil analysis. This will tell you exactly what's in your oil.
I'll probably find a place a lttle close to me, but yes, finding out where it comes from is something I'll do. I'll have the oilfilter later today.
haz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 04:54 AM   #12
jakesbox
 
trimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 759
Are you going to drive the car like this?
__________________
2003 996 Twin Turbo X50, PCCB, polar silver / 2004 996 Carerra Cabriolet, midnight blue, cinnamon leather, IMS Pro / 2003 Artic Silver Boxster - Short Throw Shift, IMS Upgrade, Carerra Light Wheels, De-Snorked with Evoms Cold Air Intake, GHL Exhaust (Sold) / 2002 Seal Grey Boxster - Fabspeed Exhaust, Black powder coated wheels, Porsche stripes (Sold) / 2 -1957 356 A Speedsters (signal red and seal grey) (Sold) / 1989 944 Turbo (m030 S options)
trimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 05:43 AM   #13
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,669
Don't start the engine or drive the car until you know what's going on. If it is something serious, it will only be made worse by running the engine.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 07:31 AM   #14
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.fro View Post
On the outside chance that you can get 3-4 ounces of oil, you can send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories for an oil analysis. This will tell you exactly what's in your oil.
Incorrect in the cases where debris is large enough to be seen with a naked eye. In this case a particulate analysis must be done, which is not the same as a standard UOA. This can only be done by Caterpillar as it is common place with heavy equipment.

Any debris that is great enough in size or quantity to be seen with the naked eye is a serious condition. I'd not operate that engine again until an invasive inspection is carried out, to include sump removal.

With the oil filter removed insert a clean finger into the center inlet of the oil filter housing. If you find debris on your finger when inspected under direct sunlight or flash photography you have permanently damaged main and rod bearings as the debris has passed through the oil filter (via the bypass) and has been fed directly to the main and rod bearings. If this has occurred seek assistance at the next level.
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 08:24 AM   #15
haz
Registered User
 
haz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 325
I took some photos of the oilfilter, please comment:





haz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 08:52 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,709
Do you have any way of knowing (from previous owner if clutch was replaced perhaps) if it is a dual row IMS bearing? or the single row?

can you tell the build month of the car? (assuming it is a 2000 build)
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 08:57 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by haz View Post
Wow what??
2 and 1/4 years is a long time for old oil to be sitting in the car.
And 10,000 miles is too long to put on the oil. Although this would have been a good time to have the oil inspected before the purchase. Sounds like your mechanic did not do this? assuming you had the car inspected by someone who knows about this car's engine needs.

p.s.
Over here IMS replacement (without replacing the clutch, but something not recommended) is probably approximately 10 hours of shop time at the most. Do you know what a Porsche specialty shop charges per hour in Oslo? I'm sure a competent shop can get it done between 9 am and 5 pm with access to all the right tools. The bearing itself here can cost between $100-$700 (there are a few options so I'm sure about range). The tool to extract the bearing is like $600 or so. But if the shop knows how to do this job they should already have this custom tool. This is not a generic tool you buy at a hardware store.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW

Last edited by Perfectlap; 08-23-2013 at 09:05 AM.
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 09:06 AM   #18
haz
Registered User
 
haz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 325
I do not know if it has a single or a dual row, nor which month in the year of 2000 it was built. Maybe there is a way of checking, say via the VIN number?

I know 27 months between oilchanges is too long. As I said, I purchaes the Boxster july 4.th and all shops were closed during the summertime. They opened now and that´s why I did the service incl oilchange..

I´m thinking of returning the car to the seller..

I will bring the oilfilter with some metalshavings to my local Porsche workshop so that they can determine what type of metal this is, and thereby determine where it comes from within the engine..
haz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 09:14 AM   #19
Registered User
 
Perfectlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 8,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by haz View Post
I do not know if it has a single or a dual row, nor which month in the year of 2000 it was built. Maybe there is a way of checking, say via the VIN number?

I know 27 months between oilchanges is too long. As I said, I purchaes the Boxster july 4.th and all shops were closed during the summertime. They opened now and that´s why I did the service incl oilchange..

I´m thinking of returning the car to the seller..
Does Norway have a guarantee time for used cars?

The build date on US cars is on the driver's door jam. Where the door closes.

Dual row cars are the most unlikely to have an IMS fail. Some 2000 cars had dual row. But Porsche's serial numbers are not reliable to determine this.
__________________
GT3 Recaro Seats - Boxster Red
GT3 Aero / Carrera 18" 5 spoke / Potenza RE-11
Fabspeed Headers & Noise Maker
BORN: March 2000 - FINLAND
IMS#1 REPLACED: April 2010 - NEW JERSEY -- LNE DUAL ROW
Perfectlap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 09:17 AM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 231
If you have ANY chance of getting your money back do it! I have a dual row and was felling pretty good (based on the law suit reported failure rates), until I recently had the opportunity to hold a failed duel row in my hand....from a low mileage car. That metal does not look like IMS to me....but listen to Jake and the experts.

runjmc2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Post Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page