OH NO!! Metal shavings in oil filter :(| - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

haz · 08-23-2013, 12:30 AM

So I just now got a call from the work shop (I dropped my 2000 Boxster off for a small service this morning) and they said that they'd forund lots of metal shavings in the oil filter. I told them to call me, if they would find this, as I have read on these forums amongst other places that metal shavings is the first sign of an IMS failure.

SO: WHat the f@£k to do? Is there just one option? Which is to do the IMS bearing upgrade? Because the cheapest place I found quoted me $3300 for JUST the job

Have a great weekend you guys!

Steve Tinker · 08-23-2013, 01:22 AM

What to do, what to do......

#1 - Do you have confidence in the workshop inspecting the filter?? how long since it was changed ??
#2 - Go and look at the offending filter - determine how bad it is.
#3 - Is the metal in the filter ferrous (magnetic) or aluminium /white metal debris - this could be important.
#4 - If the filter debris is exessive, have the workshop remove the sump cover plate and inspect the inside - if the filter is full of metal, there could be more in the sump which could indicate where the failure occurred ....

haz · 08-23-2013, 01:57 AM

10.100 miles / 16.300 km (and 27 months) since last oilchange.

Note: I was the one who asked the mechanic to call me if he found some metal shavings in the filter.

I will post pics of the filter tonight.

What is the difference between aluminium / white etc shavings? What is from where?

Q: can a metal expert tell what sort of metal this is, and where it comes from? And in that way, tell me if the IMS failure is around the corner?

Steve Tinker · 08-23-2013, 02:14 AM

If the metal debris is non magnetic, there's a good chance that the big end /main bearings of the crankshaft have been compromised....
Run a magnet over the metal in the filter - if it stick to the magnet, its ferrous, which could be debris from the IMS ball bearing, timing chains / sprockets etc.
Even after 10,000 miles, there should be no metal (or plastic from the guide rails) in the filter - you need to determin the source of the failure asap.

coreseller · 08-23-2013, 02:57 AM

If it were me, I would follow Steve's advice on checking the metal bits out then drop the sump pan to check. Secondly, start changing your oil more often (3,000 to 5,000 mile intervals). Lastly, $3300 is high for this job but your options in Norway may be limited vs. the states.

Post up high resolution pics of the debris found in the filter.

haz · 08-23-2013, 03:17 AM

I will update you guys after I retrieve the car in 3 hours. I'll check with a magnet also in addition top posting high res pics.

PS: I have owned this Boxster since july 4.th and couldn\t change the oil before now, all shops have been closed for the summer.

tanque55 · 08-23-2013, 04:17 AM

2 years and 10K miles? Wow!

haz · 08-23-2013, 04:21 AM

Wow what??

j.fro · 08-23-2013, 04:26 AM

On the outside chance that you can get 3-4 ounces of oil, you can send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories for an oil analysis. This will tell you exactly what's in your oil.

madmods · 08-23-2013, 04:26 AM

.................................

haz · 08-23-2013, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.fro

On the outside chance that you can get 3-4 ounces of oil, you can send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories for an oil analysis. This will tell you exactly what's in your oil.

I'll probably find a place a lttle close to me, but yes, finding out where it comes from is something I'll do. I'll have the oilfilter later today.

trimer · 08-23-2013, 04:54 AM

Are you going to drive the car like this?

thstone · 08-23-2013, 05:43 AM

Don't start the engine or drive the car until you know what's going on. If it is something serious, it will only be made worse by running the engine.

Jake Raby · 08-23-2013, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.fro

On the outside chance that you can get 3-4 ounces of oil, you can send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories for an oil analysis. This will tell you exactly what's in your oil.

Incorrect in the cases where debris is large enough to be seen with a naked eye. In this case a particulate analysis must be done, which is not the same as a standard UOA. This can only be done by Caterpillar as it is common place with heavy equipment.

Any debris that is great enough in size or quantity to be seen with the naked eye is a serious condition. I'd not operate that engine again until an invasive inspection is carried out, to include sump removal.

With the oil filter removed insert a clean finger into the center inlet of the oil filter housing. If you find debris on your finger when inspected under direct sunlight or flash photography you have permanently damaged main and rod bearings as the debris has passed through the oil filter (via the bypass) and has been fed directly to the main and rod bearings. If this has occurred seek assistance at the next level.

haz · 08-23-2013, 08:24 AM

I took some photos of the oilfilter, please comment:

Perfectlap · 08-23-2013, 08:52 AM

Do you have any way of knowing (from previous owner if clutch was replaced perhaps) if it is a dual row IMS bearing? or the single row?

can you tell the build month of the car? (assuming it is a 2000 build)

Perfectlap · 08-23-2013, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haz

Wow what??

2 and 1/4 years is a long time for old oil to be sitting in the car.
And 10,000 miles is too long to put on the oil. Although this would have been a good time to have the oil inspected before the purchase. Sounds like your mechanic did not do this? assuming you had the car inspected by someone who knows about this car's engine needs.

p.s.
Over here IMS replacement (without replacing the clutch, but something not recommended) is probably approximately 10 hours of shop time at the most. Do you know what a Porsche specialty shop charges per hour in Oslo? I'm sure a competent shop can get it done between 9 am and 5 pm with access to all the right tools. The bearing itself here can cost between $100-$700 (there are a few options so I'm sure about range). The tool to extract the bearing is like $600 or so. But if the shop knows how to do this job they should already have this custom tool. This is not a generic tool you buy at a hardware store.

haz · 08-23-2013, 09:06 AM

I do not know if it has a single or a dual row, nor which month in the year of 2000 it was built. Maybe there is a way of checking, say via the VIN number?

I know 27 months between oilchanges is too long. As I said, I purchaes the Boxster july 4.th and all shops were closed during the summertime. They opened now and that´s why I did the service incl oilchange..

I´m thinking of returning the car to the seller..

I will bring the oilfilter with some metalshavings to my local Porsche workshop so that they can determine what type of metal this is, and thereby determine where it comes from within the engine..

Perfectlap · 08-23-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haz

I do not know if it has a single or a dual row, nor which month in the year of 2000 it was built. Maybe there is a way of checking, say via the VIN number?

I know 27 months between oilchanges is too long. As I said, I purchaes the Boxster july 4.th and all shops were closed during the summertime. They opened now and that´s why I did the service incl oilchange..

I´m thinking of returning the car to the seller..

Does Norway have a guarantee time for used cars?

The build date on US cars is on the driver's door jam. Where the door closes.

Dual row cars are the most unlikely to have an IMS fail. Some 2000 cars had dual row. But Porsche's serial numbers are not reliable to determine this.

runjmc2 · 08-23-2013, 09:17 AM

If you have ANY chance of getting your money back do it! I have a dual row and was felling pretty good (based on the law suit reported failure rates), until I recently had the opportunity to hold a failed duel row in my hand....from a low mileage car. That metal does not look like IMS to me....but listen to Jake and the experts.