911 envy ?

[Topless]

Originally Posted by ghostrider300

I agree with you 100%, I know Porsche wants to protect the cash cow but look at it this way, they have more cows in the pasture, it's not like they are Kodak trying to protect film as their sole high profit product.

... And the biggest cash cow of them all, eclipsing all Porsche sports car sales in 2012:

The Pepperwagen. Who knew?

Porsche Reports Best-Ever Sales in 2012; 21 percent increase over 2011

[Ian c]

And some of the guys in charge on fraud charges ....

[Ian c]

Originally Posted by fatmike

pffft. Who cares about the 911?


It stopped being a sports car about 15 years ago. Now it's a big heavy GT. I simply have no interest.


If you want to be envious of a Porsche, go drive a 981. Now that I have, my days in a 986 are numbered...



/

I'm not trying to be a dick , but the amount of bull that gets posted by people online whenever the boxster - 911 discussion comes up has been amazing me since 98

THEY ARE BOTH GREAT CARS !!!!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by fatmike

pffft. Who cares about the 911?


It stopped being a sports car about 15 years ago. Now it's a big heavy GT. I simply have no interest.


If you want to be envious of a Porsche, go drive a 981. Now that I have, my days in a 986 are numbered...



/

A 981 Spyder or 981 R might be scary good. I might have to avoid ever driving that one...

Btw, whenever I read about someone swapping their Carrera for the 981S, I always congratulate them for upgrading to a Boxster.
How is moving to a midengine Porsche not an upgrade? LOL. Speaking of which, If Porsche ever made a 918 that "just" had a 991 GT3 engine revvvving to 9K RPM...oh boy. game over.

but maybe things are changing and Porsche is finally letting go of the "only the Carrera will get the best engines" mentality.
The VW CEO was recently rumored to be driving around in a Cayman with a flat8...

[coreseller]

[QUOTE=Ian c;349642]

I'm not trying to be a dick , but the amount of bull that gets posted by people online whenever the boxster - 911 discussion comes up has been amazing me since 98

THEY ARE BOTH GREAT CARS !!!![/QUOTE]


It's great to see someone who gets it, Thank You.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ian c

wait a minute...

You're comparing an antique Porsche to a modern Porsche to disprove FatMike's contention, one that is widely held and hardly "BS", of the Carrera's ever growing girth?

The 14 years between the 2010 987 Boxster Spyder and a 1996 986 (EU edition) would clearly illustrate that the Boxster hasn't swelled remotely in its proportions like the 14 years between a 1998 993 and a 2012 991 :




Now compare the last three Boxsters (15 years later, still basically the same roadster proportions)....





It's pretty obvious that Porsche are transforming the Carrera into a plush, insulated, Grand Touring car like an Aston or Jaguar so that it can appeal to the much bigger pool of big bucks buyers who like being comfy in thier Panamera coupes (aka 991). To Porsche's credit they widened and lengthened the 991 without adding weight but there's no getting around the downsides of actually swelling the girth/size of a sports car. Case in point, we now see the 991 GT3 with 4 wheel steering to make cornerig feel like a smaller, more nimble Carrera (aka the Cayman), and of course to address that weird abrupt under steer to abrupt oversteer condition often criticized in the bigger, more recent Carreras.

[The Radium King]

if power is an issue, put a 911 engine in it when (if) your current engine pops.

if image is an issue, put a zeintop on it and de-logo it. no-one will know if it's a boxster, cayman, 911, 996 turbo or what.

[black_falcon]

My final decision came down to a '91 Carrera 4 or my '99 Boxster.

I went with the Boxster. Honestly.. for less money it delivers an equally satisfying driving experience, the same wonderfully operatic flat six whirr, and will be relatively maintenance free in comparison as my daily driver.

I'd love to own an older 911 someday, but I don't feel like I gave anything up by going the Boxster route. Two completely different cars aimed at two different tasks and they both do it remarkable well.

[Ian c]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

wait a minute...

You're comparing an antique Porsche to a modern Porsche to disprove FatMike's contention, one that is widely held and hardly "BS", of the Carrera's ever growing girth?

The 14 years between the 2010 987 Boxster Spyder and a 1996 986 (EU edition) would clearly illustrate that the Boxster hasn't swelled remotely in its proportions like the 14 years between a 1998 993 and a 2012 991 :




Now compare the last three Boxsters (15 years later, still basically the same roadster proportions)....





It's pretty obvious that Porsche are transforming the Carrera into a plush, insulated, Grand Touring car like an Aston or Jaguar so that it can appeal to the much bigger pool of big bucks buyers who like being comfy in thier Panamera coupes (aka 991). To Porsche's credit they widened and lengthened the 991 without adding weight but there's no getting around the downsides of actually swelling the girth/size of a sports car. Case in point, we now see the 991 GT3 with 4 wheel steering to make cornerig feel like a smaller, more nimble Carrera (aka the Cayman), and of course to address that weird abrupt under steer to abrupt oversteer condition often criticized in the bigger, more recent Carreras.

Erm ......
I put beer smilies , and Said not being a dick ,
Yet you still took the wrong end of the stick and ran with it ....

My bs comment was aimed at nobody in particular , but instead the fevered defending of a persons car purchase , by insulting and belittling the other car in discussion .
As I said , they're both great cars .
I own both .
I'm neither an elitist 911 snob , nor a little napoleon boxster driver . I'm just a car guy .....

(And it wasn't me who originally compared the boxster to a 550 ... As always happens in these discussions )

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ian c

Erm ......
I put beer smilies , and Said not being a dick ,
Yet you still took the wrong end of the stick and ran with it ....

My bs comment was aimed at nobody in particular , but instead the fevered defending of a persons car purchase , by insulting and belittling the other car in discussion .

ran with it?


You posted a photo of an antique Porsche next to a modern Porsche. Basically to demonstrate the idea that the Carrera becoming a Grand Touring is not really different to what has happened to the Boxster.

This is very misleading because the Carrera has in fact been morphed into a different category of sports car (FatMike's point). Whereas the Boxster is bigger than the 550 simply because it would be impossible to build a street legal production car that way today. Not as long as DOT laws have a say.

Your photo was a apples to oranges comparison. I posted an apples to apples comparison. That's all.

[Ian c]

It was you that first mentioned the 550 . Then complains when somebody posts a picture of one ...

It was you that talked of the porsche racing success decades prior to the 911 design . Then backtracks when proved wrong ...

It is you that seems to have 911 envy ...

The very reason these types have thread keep me amused over the years

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ian c

It was you that first mentioned the 550 .
It was you that talked of the porsche racing success prior to the 911 design .
It is you that seems to have 911 envy ...

correct, and mentioning the 550 is very relevant in addressing the OP's point that he felt that the Boxster was a 'girl's car'. As the Boxster is the closest to the 550 Spyder -- a car NO ONE would qualify as a chick car. Certainly not those willing to pay upwards of a million dollars. The only people who seem to feel that the Boxster is inferior are people who simply discount the history of the car within the brand and spend too much time buying into the years-in-the-making clever upselling strategies by Porsche's marketing people. Strategies that would only have been possible if the Boxster and Cayman were inexplicably denied engines that their platforms were more than capable of handling. Bizarre....

All of these point points were relevant to the OP's post. So I'm confused as to why would say I brought it up, as if to infer irrelevance.

p.s.
I have Ferrari envy. So you got it half right. You can always buy an old Carrera for less than a Cayman S and not get too freaked out about repairs. Can't say that about those beautiful sounding/looking Ferraris.

p.p.s.
for the record, are you disagreeing with FatMike, that the Carrera has not morphed into a GT? By posting the antique vs. modern Porsche picture you seem to be at odds with that sentiment. Are you back pedaling?

[Ian c]

Yeah that has always been the beauty and selling point of the 911 .
Reliability AND track ability .

One of the reasons the 924 cgt and 914s where deliberately held back .

[Ian c]

As I said earlier , I was having a beer with mike and my comments where not aimed at anyone in particular , but rather the way these threads always seem to go ...

I know exactly how these cars have morphed , this is not my first rodeo ....
I have a 56 bug , 73 911 , 93 c2 , and an 09 c4s .... The boxster in my work parking lot again today

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ian c

Yeah that has always been the beauty and selling point of the 911 .
Reliability AND track ability .

Actually 99% of the water-cooled Carreras overheat on the track just like all the non-flagship Porsches today. Which is why the GT3 have sold so well amongst the track crowds and why the cars will hold value. Those engines don't just look the part.

[Ian c]

In fact , I have boxster envy
A new S with pdk is my current dream car at the top of my "list"

[Ian c]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Actually 99% of the water-cooled Carreras overheat on the track just like all the non-flagship Porsches today. Which is why the GT3 have sold so well amongst the track crowds and why the cars will hold value. Those engines don't just look the part.

Any facts to back this up ?

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ian c

Any facts to back this up ?

Look at any Interseries Cayman, or the BGB Cayman that won the Rolex 24 with a 997 engine. It goes well into the six figures to make a Porsche 997/987/991/981 engine (aka non-GT3) capable of withstanding long track stints. Or alternatively, just connect a reader to the temperature sensors via ECU CAN bus during a punishing day at Sebring..and then compare to the GT3. One of these engines has clearly not been engineered for track duty. And its not just the engine, its also the transmission, brakes, possibly power steering pump...

Porsche doesn't equip car in a way where 90+% of its street drivers will never use it.
That's just an unnecessary vaporizing of ready made profits.

[Ian c]

It cost about a thousand bucks to buy a gt3 radiator set up , plus the bumper .

The normal 997 third radiator can be done for around 400 .
Should the other 99% overheat on the track on a real hot day .

However , I think you misunderstood when I mentioned the streetcars track ability as a selling point ...

This is a very interesting conversation .....

[Perfectlap]

are you discussing the cost to do some simple modifications or the cost to buy a track Porsche (as in ready for long track stints, like I posted) that won't blow out engine/transmission/brakes and does NOT come with a GT3 engine?

Granted I said six figures for just the engine mods and that was wrong. It's for making a street-engined Porsche capable of the track duty of a GT3 street car.