911 envy ?

[Ian c]

Contrary to popular belief, Porsche were successfull in racing decades before the idea of a revamped 356 (the 911) had even entered anyone's mind.

I read this as you saying porsche had decades of racing history prior to the 911 being even designed .....

[Topless]

Originally Posted by Ian c

Contrary to popular belief, Porsche were successfull in racing decades before the idea of a revamped 356 (the 911) had even entered anyone's mind.

I read this as you saying porsche had decades of racing history prior to the 911 being even designed .....

Ian,

If you include "Porsche designs" you could certainly make that argument:

"Porsche had advanced to Managing Director by 1916 and received the honorary doctorate degree, "Dr. techn h.c." from the Vienna University of Technology in 1917 (hence the "Dr. Ing h.c" in his name, meaning "Doktor Ingenieur Honoris Causa"). Porsche successfully continued to construct racing cars, winning 43 out of 53 races with his 1922 design. In 1923, Porsche left Austro-Daimler after differences ensued about the future direction of car development." Wiki

[Dr.Strangepork]

I'd love a 997 or newer. But a 996? I can't bring myself to pay more for a car that is largely the same as a Boxster S.

[j.fro]

Ive got a 996 C4 that's my daily driver, and the 986 is my autocross/fun car. Hands down, the Box is the better sports car. And with mods and weight loss, it is much quicker. But the C4 is all-wheel drive, and the storage in the cabin is nice for travel, groceries, etc.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Ian c

Contrary to popular belief, Porsche were successfull in racing decades before the idea of a revamped 356 (the 911) had even entered anyone's mind.

I read this as you saying porsche had decades of racing history prior to the 911 being even designed .....

You're correct that could have been written better on my part. Point is however that the Carrera was very late to the Porsche racing history party when it finally worked out all of its commercial compromises and became a top winner. Yet despite being so late to the show, relative to its much longer history, this one model seems to have been associated with all of its success by the average guy. I think this largely a consequence of guys who began driving in the 70's and 80's and grew up idolizing the 911.
Before I started shopping for the Boxster S I became very used to seeing 993 and 996 every weekend at my local autocross venue and had already driven virtually every 996 except the GTs. So in a way I thought of buying one as the next logical step but the only car I ever got weak kneed over was the F355 and I was already well into adulthood then. At any rate I was resolved to buy a coupe and my first Porsche wasn't going to be a Cabriolet. That made no sense. The next convertible would be that 355 . Then I watched Tiff Needell declare the Boxster the best pure sports car on 5th gear. Watching a former F1 driver have that much fun prompted me to do a search of eBay and my current 986s was sitting less than 15 mins away with barely any mileage in the exact trim an options I was wanting. After the test drive it was no contest. There was a yellow 996 close by for only $10K more. I didn't even give it a second thought.

The "entry level" Porsche title has always been amusing to me. I suppose it applies to new Porsches but most Porsche enthusiasts I have known didn't buy new. When I was shopping for the first Porsche and before the air-cooled Carreras had begun their recent surge, the want ads were littered with old Carreras, 944's,968, 928 that you could buy for less than $30k if you couldnt afford a new Bosxter. plenty of cheap Porsches to be had. And those who would think that buying a Boxster in hopes of having inexpensive maintenance and repairs would be in for the same rude awakening as someone thinking any $10k water-cooled Porsche isn't going to require a very handy DIY'er or some pretty large invoices from the dealer or Indy.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

The "entry level" Porsche title has always been amusing to me. I suppose it applies to new Porsches but most Porsche enthusiasts I have known didn't buy new.

In the Porsche model line up, since 1996, that is exactly what it is. Some posters (thankfully very few) exemplify the "short man" complex that some in the P-Car community have had since the 914, 924, etc., hence my prior comment regarding the Boxster image "This con is mainly dependent on your insecurity level".

At the end of the day, the Boxster is a VERY capable and competent sports car that is now luckily affordable to many who never would of considered nor have afforded to buy one new. I am also one of those guys.............

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by coreseller

In the Porsche model line up, since 1996, that [entry level] is exactly what it is.

Which Porsche, to their credit, have cleverly exploited to build up the Carrera image. First by inexplicably declaring the best engines off limits to a car that isn't even in the same category of sports car as the Carrera to create this pseudo hierarchy. They did it to the Boxster and then the Cayman. But the most ironic thing of all about an " entry level " or "stepping stone car" that their marketing people used so effectively to upsell the Carrera, is that it is born of the very insecurity you speak of: Porsche's obvious as the Sun insecurity that equipping non-Carrera cars with their finest engines would reveal that their flagship car was not the most capable track performer. Porsche have been insecure about their flagship car for 50 years. Inexplicably tall 1st gears in the Box/Cayman to deliberately make it slower than a base Carrera's launch start? You don't get anymore transparently insecure than that. No other sports car company would have fabricated this forced hierarchy. A point made all the more obvious when a Cayman won its class (against factory supported rivals) in the Rolex 24 with no support from Porsche or any real acknowledgment either.
They're insecure even when their own badge takes the checkered flag if the winning Porsche is not their commercial favorite!

P.s.
I believe base Cayennes were the cheapest Porsche you could buy in certain years since the SUV was introduced. It hasn't always been the Boxster even if the auto journalists didn't always bother to check.

[ghostrider300]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Which Porsche, to their credit, have cleverly exploited to build up the Carrera image. First by inexplicably declaring the best engines off limits to a car that isn't even in the same category of sports car to create this pseudo hierarchy. They did it to the Boxster and then the Cayman. But the most ironic thing of all about an " entry level " or "stepping stone car" that their marketing people used so effectively is that it is born of the very insecurity you speak of: Porsche's obvious as the Sun insecurity that equipping non-Carrera cars with their finest engines would reveal that their flagship car was not the most capable track performer. Porsche have been insecure about their flagship car for 50 years. No other sports car company would have fabricated this forced hierarchy. A point made all the more obvious when a Cayman won its class (against factory supported rivals) in the Rolex 24 with no support from Porsche or any real acknowledgment.
They're insecure even when their own badge takes the checkered flag.

I agree with you 100%, I know Porsche wants to protect the cash cow but look at it this way, they have more cows in the pasture, it's not like they are Kodak trying to protect film as their sole high profit product.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by ghostrider300

I agree with you 100%, I know Porsche wants to protect the cash cow but look at it this way, they have more cows in the pasture, it's not like they are Kodak trying to protect film as their sole high profit product.

The most bizzare thing about this 50 year old strategy is that a mid engine or even front engine car with the finest Porsche NA and Turbo engines could have easily coexisted with the Carrera..and might have kept them far away from even the whiff of bankruptcy. Instead they used the best engines towards an all eggs in one model basket strategy and nearly lost the company in the middle of a U.S. economic boom when Americans were buying two of everything (mid-late 1990's).
Stubborn c-blocking of their own Porsches... Whats wrong with putting the best engines in all their cars and letting the chips fall where they may on the race track? What Porsche learned since those days of putting it all behind the 911, as far as top engine allocation, is that the Porsche brand is bigger than the Carrera loyalists. They protected the Carrera for 50 years only to come to the realization that their obvious insecurities were misplaced since their greatest pay days would come from non-Carrera models (Cayenne/Pana) that the 911 purists/worshipers all dismissed.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by ghostrider300

I agree with you 100%, I know Porsche wants to protect the cash cow but look at it this way, they have more cows in the pasture, it's not like they are Kodak trying to protect film as their sole high profit product.

... And the biggest cash cow of them all, eclipsing all Porsche sports car sales in 2012:

The Pepperwagen. Who knew?

Porsche Reports Best-Ever Sales in 2012; 21 percent increase over 2011

[Ian c]

And some of the guys in charge on fraud charges ....