What is going on with 986 and 996 prices?

[986_inquiry]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I don't think its the IMS issues. Not after talking to my Indy this weekend about the cost to rebuild NA/Turbo air-cooled Carreras.
Man if dropping $12K on of those repairs doesn't scare away a first time Porsche buyer... and you thought $2K for a IMSB was bad?

IMS totals the engine, so it is a $12k+ repair

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Also, the 996 has been well below 20K for quiet some time now. I'm seeing threads of people picking up fairly well kept 996's for $10-$12K.

996 911 for $10k? While I don't doubt that might have happened somewhere (hate to see what it looked like!), that's hardly the norm. ~$20,000 is closer to what they cost in average condition, but if you have some links for 911's selling for $10,000 I'd be happy to take a look

[thstone]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

996 911 for $10k? While I don't doubt that might have happened somewhere (hate to see what it looked like!), that's hardly the norm. ~$20,000 is closer to what they cost in average condition, but if you have some links for 911's selling for $10,000 I'd be happy to take a look

Here is a link to the 996 that I just bought for $10K after my Boxster was totaled:

http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/44227-986-wrecked-got-996-today.html

I think that you'll agree that it looks pretty nice. Savannah beige full leather interior. Porsche/BBS Sport Design 18" two piece wheels. No leaks, runs great, drives great.

[southernstar]

Papasmurf, you are right about the convertible 944 S2's - there are so few that I had forgotten about them! As to the rest, I stick by what I had said. I owned a 1970 Datsun 240Z and a 1974 260Z prior to my 944 and even then I recognized that, apart from the rear transaxle in the Porsche, the basic form and package was no different and anything but unique or a breakthrough. The 924 was a joint project with VW and apart from great handling, it had middle-of-road performance and a rather uninspired body design. The 944 was a significant upgrade in appearance and performance and, as I said, was certainly a good car. However, it was still based upon the 924 and, as a consequence, was and is still considered by many to be less than a real Porsche.

Balance shafts are like spark plugs? I disagree. Porsche didn't have to pay licensing fees for spark plugs. When they decided to cut a V8 in half, they discovered that the inherent inbalance of a large in-line 4 cylinder engine would shake unacceptably without the addition of some counter-rotational balance. In-line 4 cylinders just don't work well at that size and that is why we see so few in-line 4 cylinder of that size ( 2.5 litres ) or larger today. Simply put, they had to pay Mitsubishi for a fix for a problem that was inherent in the design. I'm not saying that it is bad engineering, per se - just not up to the standard that one would expect from Porsche.
AIs to the value of 986 Porsches, I am also sticking to my guns. I believe that the value for clean, well-maintained, low mileage examples has probably already bottomed. I also believe, for the reasons indicated, that as the supply of good examples continues to diminish (and at an increasing rate - cost to maintain versus low value), the prices for these good examples will start to rise. In around 2021, when Porsche will likely introduce its fourth version of the Boxster, the original Boxsters will then be 25 years old. I fully expect that Porsche will recognize this and produce a 'Silver Anniversary Edition' Boxster. I also expect that some magazines will recognize this with retrospective articles on the 986 as it was not only a seminal design, but one that was responsible for the survival of this great marque. This publicity will bring about a resurgance in interest and therewith an increase in demand. Since the remaining supply of good examples cannot increase, prices will inevitably rise.

Anyway, while predicting the future value of collectible cars (or anything else) is fraught with uncertainty; and, while I did not buy my car for any reason other than my joy in owning, driving and looking at her, I nevertheless believe that there is good news in the current low prices for owners and prospective purchasers of clean, well-maintained examples of the 986. At the very least, depreciation will be very low; at best, there is reason to believe that in another 8 years (mid-term from an investment standpoint), the values will start to rise significantly. Is that a sufficient reason to hang on to yours? Probably not. But if your 986 continues to provide joy and excitement that would be hard to replicate with any other car for the money, then by hanging on to it you may just end up in one of those very rare win/win situations.

Brad

[pothole]

924 through 968 are misunderstood.

They are properly engineered things that make 986s feel utterly flimsy. The control weights and feel in those cars are pukka. The 986 is an over-servoed luxury barge by comparison.

They're transaxle designs, part of the reason they handle so well and typically quite a high end feature.

The only problem for me with the 924 through 968 is that they lack a rousing flat-six engine note.

Don't get me wrong, I think 986 are wonderful and on balance prefer them to 924-968s. But those four-pit cars do have the edge on our Boxsters by some driving-enjoyment metrics.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

IMS totals the engine, so it is a $12k+ repair

I don't think you can lump together a catastrophic repair (not part of the plan)
with doing a $7-$12K front-end on an air-cooled NA/Turbo engine which has to be done every x number miles. And only a small % of water-cooled engine need a total engine rebuild/swap. Over the long term on as far as cost to own, a water-cooled engine is by far the cheaper alternative. Well...unless you never drive the car but what's the point of having a sports car sitting in a glass bottle. If you're going to do that go buy a Jag or Merc.

Originally Posted by 986_inquiry

996 911 for $10k? While I don't doubt that might have happened somewhere (hate to see what it looked like!), that's hardly the norm. ~$20,000 is closer to what they cost in average condition, but if you have some links for 911's selling for $10,000 I'd be happy to take a look

Somewhere? How about this very forum less than a month ago? And by the looks of the photos, TheStone's 996.1 was hardly in average cosmetic or mechanical condition. A real enthusiast-owned cherry.
And guess what....that wasn't the first or even fifth 996 I saw go for $10-$12K. As a matter of fact there's a post right now on Rennlist for a 996 Cabriolet w/ 18" wheels purchased for $11.5k (picture).
The only people selling moderate to high mileage early 996's near to $20K are people who found a buyer with more money than knowledge. $20K is the retail price for a guy who stumbles onto Autotrader and spots a dealership's marked up price for a 996 that they picked up for peanuts at Manheim auctions. Search the direct from the seller classifieds on Craigslist and the car forums and you'll see that expectation level for the mileage and condiditon of a standard early 996.1 listing for ~$20K demands a nearly immaculate car.

Here are unofficial production numbers for early 996's.

1998: 9248
1999: 28,040
2000: 20,979
2001: 27,275
Total: 85,542

And there's about another 100K 996.2's right behind those..