Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2013, 07:34 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
ims bearing panic

Hey guys, Newbie to both form and Boxster. I picked up a 2000 boxster base at a good deal last weekend. I read up on the issues with IMS bearing and was prepare for what I might find during my first oil change. As luck would have it my filter was full of debri. (see photo) I should mention that the last oil change according to sticker on windshield was well over 10k miles and june of last year.
Of course I panicked and ordered replacement bearing from pelican. I began tearing down the car to the bearing and was surprised at how clean the bearing housing was. No leakage and the entire area was fairly cleaned. I found the clutch was replaced not long ago...I'd say 80% life left. When re-examining the filter with a couple of buddys, we found that the fragments weren't metal at all. In fact you could scrape it up and roll it into a ball that eventually would turn to goo. we ran a magnet over the entire filter and nothing. I'm thinking i panicked and my bearing is fine, but what on earth is that debri in my filter?

broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 09:51 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Ckrikos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 633
Could it be really old oil? The only other thing people find in the oil pan is plastic or parts of the timing chain. Both of those are worse than a bad imsb. The plastic pertain to the timing chain guides.
__________________
LB/GG/MB 02 2.7 sold
MB/GG 02 996TT
Ckrikos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 10:18 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Peoples Republic of Kaliforneea
Posts: 686
Whatever that is, there is a heckuva lot of that stuff...I would get it checked out with a pro pronto!
__________________
02 Boxster (DD sans kids)
03 Dodge Ram Quad Cab (Stuff hauler)
06 Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa (Personal weekend car)
06 Maserati Quattroporte (Family hauler)
08 Corvette Z06 (Track car)
986_c6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013, 11:37 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 733
Get it analyzed.

Blackstone Labs
__________________
2000S Ocean Blue Metallic- 116K
3X Water Pump, Clear side markers, Crios Mod, Front engine mount, Flywheel, clutch, RMS, AOS, MAF, serpentine belt, power brake vacuum line, battery, 2X CV boots, Fuel filter, Oil filler tube, 3X ignition switch, 90K service, gas cap
Spinnaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:07 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Skrapmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckrikos View Post
Could it be really old oil? The only other thing people find in the oil pan is plastic or parts of the timing chain. Both of those are worse than a bad imsb. The plastic pertain to the timing chain guides.
Not sure if I would say plastic bits are worse than a bad IMS, it's usually from piece of the timing chain guides wearing, if its dark green or blackish.
If its soft and squishy, maybe some gasket material from some engine work?
Skrapmot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:00 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckrikos View Post
Could it be really old oil? The only other thing people find in the oil pan is plastic or parts of the timing chain. Both of those are worse than a bad imsb. The plastic pertain to the timing chain guides.
That oil was as ugly as I've ever seen. It was also the wrong kind (castro 20/50). The car ran fine when I changed the oil.
broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:12 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrapmot View Post
Not sure if I would say plastic bits are worse than a bad IMS, it's usually from piece of the timing chain guides wearing, if its dark green or blackish.
If its soft and squishy, maybe some gasket material from some engine work?
I have a hard time believing its plastic since it turns to a gray past when rubbed in the palm of your hand. Then again I don't know what happens to plastic under those conditions. Also this material is shinney silver in color. totally appears metallic till you mess with it.
broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:20 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
I am thinking I am going to send bearing back. Then drop oil pan and inspect both pan and sump screen
broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 05:31 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken2bfree View Post
I am thinking I am going to send bearing back. Then drop oil pan and inspect both pan and sump screen
I should mention that I bought this car with the intention of converting to electric. I just want another 24k miles out of the engine. It is important to me that the engine be in good running condition when I do convert so That I can sell it as such. I see used running 986 motors selling for 3-5k and that will go a long way in electric components.
broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 09:44 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
Trusted Mechanic told me it was bearing material for sure.
broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:26 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Skrapmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken2bfree View Post
Trusted Mechanic told me it was bearing material for sure.
Wouldn't bearing material be magnetic? That's how the magnetic drain plugs and IMS guardian works to detect bearing failure.
Skrapmot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:30 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Skrapmot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken2bfree View Post
I am thinking I am going to send bearing back. Then drop oil pan and inspect both pan and sump screen
With all that weird junk, I would definetly do that .
Skrapmot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:07 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
I would have thought metal would be magnetic. He explained it was babbit material, which is not magnetic. He also said that babbit would ball up and turn to goo just like it did. as much material as there was in that filter, he couldnt believe the car ran good before i parked it. He's not a porsche guy and had no clue what an ims bearing was, but said it is bearing material, and if ims bearing is what fails on a porsche then odds were thats the remainants of an ims bearing.
broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #14
Registered User
 
seningen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: austin
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken2bfree View Post
Trusted Mechanic told me it was bearing material for sure.
Hmmm -- I would think that bearing material would be ferrous.

What about aluminum shavings -- but that could be coming from anywhere in
an M96 engine. Was there any noise from the timing chains. I could
see where there maybe a tensioner paddle that has worn through the plastic
and is now etching some aluminum.

I would recommend getting it analyzed and then you will at least a know what your dealing with.

Mike
__________________
Drivers: '08 Cayenne Turbo, 96 993 Çab/Tip (wife's) & '92 964 Cab
Race Cars: '75 911 RSR Clone & '99 Spec Boxster
mike@lonestarrpm.com
seningen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:20 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick MD
Posts: 658
Babbitt is primarily tin (I believe) and is non ferrous. It is used in sleeve bearings, not ball bearings. If you have babbitt material in your, oil the source is likely a rod or main bearing...The IMS is a ball bearing.
shadrach74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #16
Registered User
 
BYprodriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: O.C. CA
Posts: 3,268
Garage
If the IMS to crank chain wore thru the wear pad of the aluminum tensioning paddle shown on the right side in this pic of a 2000 Box engine crank housing, it will make shavings like that until it breaks in half. If you remove the chain tensioner right beside the oil filter you can get a peak at the paddle & Maybe see if it is damaged. The chain & wear pad are on the backside, so it could be excessively worn, & you can't see it thru the hole. When you remove the oil sump plate you will probably see more shavings there.

BYprodriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:42 PM   #17
Registered User
 
seningen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: austin
Posts: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by BYprodriver View Post
If the IMS to crank chain wore thru the wear pad of the aluminum tensioning paddle shown on the right side in this pic of a 2000 Box engine crank housing, it will make shavings like that until it breaks in half. If you remove the chain tensioner right beside the oil filter you can get a peak at the paddle & Maybe see if it is damaged. The chain & wear pad are on the backside, so it could be excessively worn, & you can't see it thru the hole. When you remove the oil sump plate you will probably see more shavings there.

This is what I was referring to.

You can fit a boroscope through the hole and inspect it as well. We did this once --
found one of the chains (of two) had broken. We saved the engine - but it still had to be torn down and put back together with a new paddle and chain assembly.
The chain broke because it was wearing a groove in the paddle.

That's a lot of shavings -- and my gut says that you would be down to some material
in the bearings that was ferrous (isn't there copper in most bearings -- I know there is on the 944)

Mike
__________________
Drivers: '08 Cayenne Turbo, 96 993 Çab/Tip (wife's) & '92 964 Cab
Race Cars: '75 911 RSR Clone & '99 Spec Boxster
mike@lonestarrpm.com
seningen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:52 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: whitney tx
Posts: 26
Garage
There was a slight tick in the area of cylinders 4 and 5 that I thought might just be injectors. It was faint.
broken2bfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:03 PM   #19
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Pull the sump plate and post pics. I have seen this one before.

Email me the pics to jake@flat6innovations.com.com as well since I am seldom on these forums these days.
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:07 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Winnipeg MB
Posts: 2,486
dumb idea - wasn't thinking, deleted it to save myself further embarrasment...

__________________
'99 black 986

Last edited by Mark_T; 04-09-2013 at 06:58 PM.
Mark_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page