IMS class action suit

[LAP1DOUG]

Originally Posted by linklaw

I currently have several lawsuits pending against Ford Motor Company and they are using outside counsel. Over the years, I have sued Alfa Romeo, Volkswagen, Ford and Chrysler and they all used outside counsel. Of course, these cases were not class action lawsuits, but if the manufacturers are using (by my experience) outside counsel for smaller cases, I assume they would hire outside counsel for the larger ones as well.

Please remind me not to ever sell anything to you sir.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by NoGaBiker

Man, you're just digging it deeper. Is that supposed to make sense?

As to your knowledge of the practices of the legal profession... okay. I stand corrected. Your suggestion that a corporation would litigate a major class action lawsuit (and believe me, they're all major) by using corporate counsel instead of retaining outside litigators sounded like someone who didn't know what they were talking about with respect to commercial litigation.

Wait... it still does!

Oh, such a clever fellow!

Okay, so I never practiced corporate law, was shooting from the hip on that one...so sue me. As far as I'm concerned, the matter of WHO represents them in a court of law is all but irrelevant to this discussion. It matters not a whit to me who represents them. My point, a secondary one, is that they have the resources to handle such matters with regard to both courtroom representation and with regard to fixing what they repeatedly screwed up in the vehicles powered by faulty M96 power plants. My primary point? HAD they had the decency to address the latter, the former would not even be an issue. They still could do this. Face the fact that there is a significant problem (albeit with an admittedly small number of their vehicles). Develop a corporate policy on owner-assistance in those cases, the details of which can be based on a myriad of factors for any given case: age of the vehicle, mileage, original owner vs second hand, maintenance records, etc. Don't make aggrieved owners grovel at the dealership level---that's not even fair to their own people, those making the sales and dealing with disgruntled owners. This policy could be reduced to some sort of formula-based approach, a sliding scale---they needn't throw a new crate motor into every car that dies a premature death due to a faulty design, nor do they need to compensate everyone who bought a car with an intermediate shaft---hell, if the thing blows at 150k virtually no one's gonna make a stink about it. A reasonable compromise is the key here, emphasis on the "reasonable." People---even those with vehicles that fall apart at 40k miles---can be reasonable when they're treated with decency and respect. When they get burned, they don't get bent out of shape when they are offered an evenhanded compromise. They DO get bent out of shape when, at the dealership level, they are handled in a patronizing manner, are offered empty platitudes, or, as in many cases, are simply blown off altogether. That's a pretty effective way to erode your future customer base---not only among the victims themselves, but among their friends and associates, friends of friends, etc.

Porsche is not going to go belly up on this, as some have suggested...of that I'm convinced. This is not about unfortunate souls being incinerated in vehicles with poorly designed fuel tanks. We're not talking about astronomical punitive damage awards here---we're probably not talking punitive damages at all. Simple restitution, that's all. I've talked to lots of people at various levels at a number of dealerships, and they offer the familiar slogan, the corporate line no doubt: it (IMSB) is an insignificant problem affecting an insignificant number of vehicles, and when it happens there are warning signs that allow owners to react and take corrective measures. That message just doesn't fly with someone whose IMSB failure---often with no warning (if what I've so often read on this board is accurate)---just rendered their vehicle virtually worthless. It's offensive...it's counterproductive...it's shameful...it's wrong. AND...it's beneath that Porsche heritage so many seem to hold in such high regard. And if the IMSB problem is as rare as all the Porsche reps I've listened to say it is, fixing it really shouldn't be that financially taxing for them should it?

And when I said I know what I need to know about these cars? What I was inarticulately trying to express in the short amount of time I had available to me was that I know what I need to know about these cars relative to the IMSB issue. I was in a hurry, had something important to attend to (aka going to work). So sue me again, I stand by the sentiment of my statements. NoGaBiker, are you a lawyer?...did I offend with the use of my "toady" adjective?? If so, my apologies...what can I say? I was on a roll, my fingers on the keyboard just sort of took over. It happens. I'll try to curb my sarcasm if you'll do the same. Deal??

I've had my Box for 7 years now. I STILL to this day drink in the beauty, the wonderful lines, of this car every time I walk into the garage, still eagerly anticipate the exhilaration of the next time I drive her. Sounds hokey, I know, but anytime I'm around it, I find myself whispering quietly, "Oh Baby, I do love this car." Unfortunately, I am much less impressed by the individuals running the company that makes it. And that's a real shame.

[MSW]

First time posting, here's my question. Would this stop any of you from buying a Boxster? I'm considering a 98 with 84,000 km (Canada). Never driven in winter excellent condition. Yes or No?

[NoGaBiker]

Originally Posted by MSW

First time posting, here's my question. Would this stop any of you from buying a Boxster? I'm considering a 98 with 84,000 km (Canada). Never driven in winter excellent condition. Yes or No?

Maybe.....

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by MSW

First time posting, here's my question. Would this stop any of you from buying a Boxster? I'm considering a 98 with 84,000 km (Canada). Never driven in winter excellent condition. Yes or No?

This wouldn't stop me, if the PO has an excellent set of receipts proving the car has been serviced. Whatever you pay for it don't plan on driving it away cost free, at that age it's going to have needs. As for the IMS, I'd change it with each clutch with the cheapest version and you should be good to go. Frankly, I don't think my car suffered an IMS I think it was the chain tensioners, I asked what it turned out to be but never received any definitive communication. I also think these are still fairly rare events lots of guys going right to 100K problem free.

[Mark_T]

Originally Posted by MSW

First time posting, here's my question. Would this stop any of you from buying a Boxster? I'm considering a 98 with 84,000 km (Canada). Never driven in winter excellent condition. Yes or No?

Nope. If something bad happened to this one I would go right out and buy another. I've owned 30+ cars and I've never had a car that was this much fun to drive. It's a rush every time I've turn the key.

Mine is a '99. I bought it with 93000 km and now, four years later, it has 124,000 km.
I've spent money on the usual maintenance items - brakes, water pump, plugs - and a small fortune on optional cosmetic upgrades - top, seats, shifter, handbrake, steering wheel, headlights, tail lights - but I have had no actual mechanical failures except for a clutch line that ruptured when a small sharp piece of granite got wedged between the line and the body and sawed its way through. Not really the car's fault. It is the most reliable car I have ever owned.

I do not lie awake at night fretting about an imminent IMS detonation. I think it is highly unlikely to happen and, if it does, I'll just fix it.

Buy your Boxster - you will love it.

[CenterIsl]

Originally Posted by MSW

First time posting, here's my question. Would this stop any of you from buying a Boxster? Yes or No?

"The plural of annecdote is not data" (anon)

I was aware of all of this when I bought my Boxster a little over three years ago, and nothing significant has come to light in the interim. You can now buy an IMS Guardian for about $400. Of course, you can buy a magnetic drain plug without sensor for less than 10% of that. Or you can put a plastic Jesus on your dash:


I have none of these, my oil filter is always clean, and I sleep great at night.

[ljt_22]

Mark after all the advise you have given me in my brief boxster life I feel proud to give someback. So far so great on my 1998 94,000 silver/red porsche-had records -sensors replaced- until last three years when young girl just drove it she changed oil and bought a tire-so I bought another extended warranty from company that took care of my dead Focus that I showed my intependant Porsche man-he said it looks good but until IT happens you never know
I love your black boxster but your new offer sounds great-ljt_22

[thstone]

Originally Posted by MSW

First time posting, here's my question. Would this stop any of you from buying a Boxster? I'm considering a 98 with 84,000 km (Canada). Never driven in winter excellent condition. Yes or No?

I'd buy a Boxster again in a millisecond. I bought my car with 82,000 miles and it has 110,000 miles now. The car has been tracked extensively and has been driven cumulatively at or near redline for several dozens of hours. I have replaced the RMS and clutch and never worried about replacing the IMSB. Its not gambling when the odds are stacked (>90%) in your favor and when the worst case expense (replacing the engine) is fairly minimal ($4k for a used engine + $2K install = $6K total). Sure you can spend more and there are plenty of shops that will gladly take your money but that is all you really have to spend to get the car back on the road.

[Mark_T]

I went with Ganesh for my dash.

[rdc8118]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

I went with Ganesh for my dash.

They sell a bobble head Ganesh??? Cool.

[Paul]

I've said it before, I will not buy another new Porsche until they offer (at an extra cost is acceptable) a 10 year 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.

I really would like to buy one of those new Boxster Ss.........

[Mark_T]

As a counterpoint, my wife's 2006 Corolla has never ever needed a single unexpected repair. We have replaced the battery and the brake pads, once, and that's it. For a city-driven, winter-driven daily driver in a northern climate I think that's pretty impressive. However, to put that into perspective, I absolutely hate driving that soulless crapcan and wouldn't even briefly consider it as a car for myself. I'd rather take the bus.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

As a counterpoint, my wife's 2006 Corolla has never ever needed a single unexpected repair. We have replaced the battery and the brake pads, once, and that's it. For a city-driven, winter-driven daily driver in a northern climate I think that's pretty impressive. However, to put that into perspective, I absolutely hate driving that soulless crapcan and wouldn't even briefly consider it as a car for myself. I'd rather take the bus.

I'm glad someone said it! We choose to drive expensive cars, yes but we also buy them with the thought process that diligent maintenance and careful driving will yield longevity. The "expense" should not all be the handling and style, the car has to be reliable otherwise what exactly is the premium price tag all about? My "junker" was never even in the rain unless I was caught in it.

[Mark_T]

Hey Larry - sorry dude, but I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to tell me, or what offer you refer to. It's probably just me being dense, but maybe you could indulge on old fellow and elaborate a bit...

[ljt_22]

Hey Mark my mistake I will send to the right person

[landrovered]

I will happily go on the record as a Porsche ( big soulless megacorp) apologist. They build awesome products, should be applauded for their lifelong contribution to Motorsport and are smart enough to be profitable. Sounds fine to me. Oh and I have always been treated kindly by the dealership even though I have never bought a car from them.

[Mark_T]

What's kinda funny is that out of all the "sue Porsche for the IMS" threads I've seen, not one person that I am aware of has ever actually approached a law firm about handling a class action suit. It's all just a lot of noise and hoping that "someone else" will do it. I also tend to think that if there was any reasonable possibility then some law firm would have already snatched up the torch.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Mark_T]

Gotta love Ebay!

[sb01box]

If I was truly concern about IMS and the potential $$$ cost, rather than waiting for THE EVENT to happen, I would just sell the car.
But like most, I'm addicted to the style, handling, etc, etc of my 2001 base 2.7L Boxster. It now has 121K miles.