The new 991 S. Woah. I REALLY want one!

[RandallNeighbour]

I swear I will buy one of these with a PDK when they're about five years old. It will take me that long to save up the money. The exterior lines are beautiful and I absolutely love the interior changes.

I love the lines and the HP of the 3.8 S and well, I'm almost done with boxstering due to the heat and humidity in which I live here in Sauna City, um, Houston.

So tell me, what do you think a 2012 991 S will go for in 2017?

[Jager]

A pristine 2007 S is going between $63k to $66k now…. What is that a 40% drop from new prices?

[landrovered]

Sign me up for a GT3 991 about 2018!

[Th535is]

PDK? Boring.

[husker boxster]

A 2007 Cayman S sold for $70K new and now is worth $35K. I'd say 50% depreciation. But that would still be approx $50K since they'll probably be somewhere on the north side of $100K.

So $10K / yr and you're golden. Or a $2 PowerBall every week for the next 5 yrs would be $520.

[schoir]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

...
Or a $2 PowerBall every week for the next 5 yrs would be $520.

That would be closer to $10,400! :dance:

Regards, Maurice.

[Ghostrider 310]

Don't fear / loathe the PDK, sure rowing gears is fun but..... The PDK shifts really nice in sport plus, once you get used to it the grins are just as plentiful and wide as in any Porsche. Besides, in an increasing world of traffic jams it's a nice option to throw the car into automatic, I am real happy with the setup. As for the 991, everything I have read has been very positive, you should go drive it and report back.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

As for the 991, everything I have read has been very positive.

You haven't been reading much because every review that I have read has said this is less of a 911 and there's poor feedback from the electric steering.

[jwade]

The 991 is very nice, but the New Boxster continues to be the stellar performer. I cannot wait to get mine!

Saw two cab's at JPA yesterday when I finalized my '13 S order. These two video's made me pony up and honestly, I did shed a couple tears surrendering my '01 S, but it's time to close that chapter and open up a new one.

2012/2013 Porsche Boxster S review - YouTube

The 2012 Porsche Boxster S - Chris Harris On Cars - YouTube

[ekam]

A summary of journalists' takes on the 991:

A summary of journalists' takes on the 991 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

THE WIDE VARIETY OF OPINIONS ON THE 991 - SUMMARY

Are you as confused as I am?....I have now read a fair amount, heard a fair amount, (but not yet driven) the 991. I took a few minutes to extract some comments from the myriad reviews. There have been many journalists who have behind the wheel, and is seems to me that the difference is that the car is objectively better in every way, but in achieving it, it has lost something of its subjective Porscheness. I have the same feeling about the way BMW is taking the M cars. Here is a selection from both sides of the Atlantic. Most of the reviews are readily available in their entirety on line.

CONCLUSIONS:

Daily Telegraph:
"But is it a better 911? Here the 911 zoo begins a debate on just how scary a 911 should be. I think the 997 predecessor was marginally more of a Porsche."

Automobile Magazine:
"If the 991 is the only 911 you've ever driven, you'll probably think it's the best Porsche ever -- and in many ways we agree. If, on the other hand, you reveled in the old 911's endless feedback; if you relished the thrill of taming a car that didn't really want to be tamed; if you loved the 911 precisely because it wasn't perfect; and, certainly, if you thought that the Porsche 911 was an icon that couldn't be improved and shouldn't be changed, then the 2012 Porsche 911 might not feel like that much of an icon to you."

Car and Driver:
"Meanwhile, the new Carrera is more comfortable and transits quickly, more securely, and with less of the white-knuckle body heaving and tail twitching that has long defined the 911’s unique character. Porschephiles may have been wondering at what point their beloved 911 ceases to be a 911 and becomes just a good sports car with an engine in the trunk. That day may have arrived."

CAR:
" Its more refined.more comfortable.and more economical than ever before,but what matters is that it still has that unique 911 feel and character. The outgoing Carrera GTS is more interactive and involving but this new Porsche 911 isn't far behind - while offering a much broader range of talents to a larger audience."

MSN UK:
"It's impossible not to be impressed by what Porsche has achieved with its latest icon. Engineering and technology have been combined to push the boundaries of rear-engined design several steps forward.But it's not a five star car. By building a Porsche for a broader audience of buyers, a few too many of the little things that form an indelible part of the 911 appeal to enthusiasts have been pushed away."

Classic Car (John Simister)
"Objectively the new 911 is outstanding, but part of a 911's appeal has always been its streak of demanding imperfection. That's why I'd sooner snap up an almost-new 997 GTS while I still can. I never thought I'd consider a simple handbrake lever a bringer of joy, but I do now."

Wall Street Journal (Dan Neil)
' If anything, Porsche has managed to dial up the immediacy of the 911, with quicker reflexes—the electrical steering is first-rate—a more emotional exhaust note and, at full throttle, the capacity for real, edgy violence. You need only drop the Porsche into second gear and nail the throttle."

"The naturally aspirated, direct-injection 3.8-liter flat six mutters quietly, awaiting its chance. The suspension compliance is velvety, the throttle response relaxed. Porsche's product planners would like the new 911 to appeal to more women. Just call me Nancy.

This car is a work in progress? More like an unfinished masterpiece."



EVO ( quoted from a post here)

'Theres a layer of gauze between you and the car'
'Rather aloof and cold'
'Lacking cohesion and sweet uniformity of weights'
'An inconsistency of connection'
'A general lack of detail through the wheel'
'Sounds like..looks like...but doesnt drive like a 911'


Motor Sport:

"What astounds me is that this is just the start. In time will come the Turbos, GT3s and, lordy me, even GT2 variants – each faster and more ferocious. But if you believe in starting as you mean to go on, it’s hard to see how Porsche could have done a much better job of replacing its icon than this."


Autocar:

"I can’t honestly think of a new driver’s car due out in 2012 that’s likely t"o be better. A Lotus Evora may be a purer, more sweetly balanced thrill, but it lacks complexity next to the 911. An Aston Martin Vantage is a much duller drive; an Audi R8 closer, but no match.




BUT - QUESTIONS

Daily Telegraph
"The seven-speed manual is basically the PDK ’box with slightly different third and seventh ratios. It isn’t a success, presenting a bewildering array of five vertical selection planes"

"Only occasionally do you find a slight hollowness in the steering feel, but it’s a very clever piece of engineering."

Automobile Magazine:
"In fact, the 2012 Porsche 911 has no temper at all. The rear end never feels like it's going to come unstuck. And the steering? Well, it never feels like much at all. As a result, the new 911 doesn't really feel like a 911"

CAR:
"you'll learn to live with it, but there are many other things you can learn to live with but don't necessarily want to have in your life. If you've ever been behind the wheel of a GT3 then its instantly obvious that that delectable steering feel is missing"

MSN UK
"The longer wheelbase provides most of the improvement and electro-mechanical power steering the rest.

It changes the character. The steering is as sharp and precise as ever, but the feedback from bumps and small surface imperfections has largely disappeared. It's all progress says Porsche, but there are also reasons to mourn the loss of the old 911 character."

Classic Car (John SImister)

"And the steering? Porsche claims it to be the most advanced and most natural-feeling electric system yet invented, with new levels of cleverness in the way it interprets the driver's torque inputs to create the correct effect from the cause. But it feels a bit sloppy around the centre, as if there's a loose rubber joint in the system, and there's little in the way of subtle picture-painting feedback, just a level of resistance the electronics judge suitable"

Motor Sport

"And that steering, while not so garrulously communicative as 911 die-hards might like, makes every other electric steering system I’ve tried look nothing less than incompetent."



Autocar

"Not to like? There’s the slightly mushy centre feel of that electric power steering. Being very picky indeed, you could also say that the shift quality of the manual gearbox leaves a smidge to be desired, and may wonder why Porsche still hasn’t made its direct injection engines respond to millimetric throttle adjustments with the same creamy smoothness of its older lumps. But we don’t think you’d wonder for very long"




Clarkson ( quoted from a post here)

JC: "... great engine...awful steering"

Hammond: "it's not awful, it just doesn't feel very 911 anymore"

JC: "... they've ruined it."

But don't get me wrong - it'll still sell like hot cakes, to the Chinese mostly.

[pecora]

"to the Chinese mostly"

-1

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by ekam

A summary of journalists' takes on the 991:

A summary of journalists' takes on the 991 - Rennlist Discussion Forums



But don't get me wrong - it'll still sell like hot cakes, to the Chinese mostly.

Spreading the gospel. It makes me happy to see.

[Ghostrider 310]

Don't cry Mr. Wade 315 is going to feel like a revelation compared to the 01S, no tears.

[Perfectlap]

More and more power = the car doing more of the work and not the driver.

The car doing more of the work = Less feedback, more numbing experience.


If they could figure out how to make a 500 hp car that wasn't dangerous to the average know-nothing, unskilled, deep-pocketed driver without dumbing down the experience it might be highly entertaining. But that will never be the case because Porsche isn't going to slide over the keys to a un-diluted, pendulus, power machine that will have the owner up a tree before the break in period.

Oh and these prices are getting into what used to be exotic-only territory. A Carrear S is a nice car but it's no exotic. You could park a $120+K 991 S next to a second hand $40K 997 S and the far pricier Pcar would seem no more exotic or "unattainable" with enough left over to buy two Florida foreclosures with swimming pools in the back of each.

No thanks.

p.s.
and no handbrake? What the hell kind of sports car doesn't have one of those.

[Ghostrider 310]

All among the reasons I'm sitting in a 2011 someone else put the first 3,700 on, at least the e brake anyhow I know my car isn't everyone's cup of tea either and that's fine. I think speed is so subjective in a driving experience. The 986 kept above 4K was plenty. The 3.4 however, in a light car has "see ya" acceleration, the holy grail I sought in the 986. Yet even though my experience is one of impressive speed, the latest Excellence has a Spyder race car in which the writer says "the Spyder feels merely quick where the GT3 feels fast". Goes back to different bore and strokes for different folks.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

and no handbrake? What the hell kind of sports car doesn't have one of those.

If you're dinging the lack of a handbrake for use in sliding the rear end around, the Boxster handbrake is nowhere near up to that task, either. So while I can appreciate it being there in handle form in my 986 vs. button form in the newest gen cars, I use it for nothing more than it's job...a parking brake to keep the car in place when I am parked. Things will go snap/ting/pop if you try to use it for anything other than that.

Besides, the Spyder and the 991 S have more than enough power to overload the tires without the need for coaxing from the handbrake.

If you're just one of those people who simply prefers a manually controlled brake instead of pushing a button, though, I'm with you there. It's the price that's paid for having racing technology trickle down into street cars. Way too many things are powered and monitored by electronics now in racing, so it was bound to happen to the street cars made by a company that has its roots in that realm.

[papasmurf]

in the Chris Harris video at the very end is what would sell me on the new 981...assuming I had the money. Everyone complains about the wheels being too big but they look so good in that shot. I was skeptical at first about the 981 when I first saw the spy photos in the canyon but it looks better and better every day. The only reservation I still have is the headlight shape is not 100% to my liking...looking forward to seeing it in person.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

If you're dinging the lack of a handbrake for use in sliding the rear end around, the Boxster handbrake is nowhere near up to that task, either. So while I can appreciate it being there in handle form in my 986 vs. button form in the newest gen cars, I use it for nothing more than it's job...a parking brake to keep the car in place when I am parked. Things will go snap/ting/pop if you try to use it for anything other than that.

Besides, the Spyder and the 991 S have more than enough power to overload the tires without the need for coaxing from the handbrake.

If you're just one of those people who simply prefers a manually controlled brake instead of pushing a button, though, I'm with you there. It's the price that's paid for having racing technology trickle down into street cars. Way too many things are powered and monitored by electronics now in racing, so it was bound to happen to the street cars made by a company that has its roots in that realm.

people living in really hilly areas like are complaining about the lack of an e-brake in the 991. One guy in San Francisco wrote to the editor at Excellence to cry about it and the editor's response was to brush up on his heel and toe.

[thstone]

I have ridden in a new 991 as a passenger. Based on that experience and the Cayenne-clone interior, I'd take a 997 anyday. IMHO, the 991 isn't a drivers car, its a car to appeal to the nouveau riche in China, Russia, and the Middle East.

Maybe the 991 will grow on me, but for now the 997 is still the driver's car of choice.

[mdex]

Every new 911 comes with cries of anguish that the car has been ruined. The 964 moving to coil-overs, the 993 and that fancy multi link rear suspension, the 996 and woe as me the loss of air cooling...

After it cools down each time it seems to turn out that Porsche has overall improved the car. I have only had about an hour behind the wheel of a 991 on the street, and I was very impressed. It just seems that it has improved its envelope of performance in all directions. Better handling, yet more compliant... more power, but better efficiency. I will hold off on my final thoughts till I get one on the track, but its just different then the old cars, and in my opinion that isn't automatically a bad thing.