deal on Michelins

[JackG]

Don't forget that the tires were *unsafe* in the area of the track that they wanted to place the chicane. If the teams would have gone ahead and run the race, it is likely that there would have been tire failures, wrecks, and possible deaths. Is that really what everyone wants?

Yes, Michelin failed to produce a tire that could hold up to the stress in that one area of the track. When they realized it, they proposed a solution that would let them still run their cars without exposing their drivers to excessive danger. When that didn't fly, they protected themselves by running the warmup lap, then did the only thing they could do... they protected their drivers by pulling out of the race.

It sucks to spend all the money that fans did, just to see that. Would you rather see a couple of drivers die? You'd be screaming for Michelin's head if they knowingly let their drivers run tires that wouldn't hold up, and someone died.

I think they did what they had to do.

Jack

[99-Boxster-MK]

Originally Posted by JackG

Don't forget that the tires were *unsafe* in the area of the track that they wanted to place the chicane. If the teams would have gone ahead and run the race, it is likely that there would have been tire failures, wrecks, and possible deaths. Is that really what everyone wants?

Yes, Michelin failed to produce a tire that could hold up to the stress in that one area of the track. When they realized it, they proposed a solution that would let them still run their cars without exposing their drivers to excessive danger. When that didn't fly, they protected themselves by running the warmup lap, then did the only thing they could do... they protected their drivers by pulling out of the race.

It sucks to spend all the money that fans did, just to see that. Would you rather see a couple of drivers die? You'd be screaming for Michelin's head if they knowingly let their drivers run tires that wouldn't hold up, and someone died.

I think they did what they had to do.

Jack

I fully agree...

Mike

[TOM986]

Just remember that that corner has been at Indie for many years and Michelin should know how to make a tire to stand up to it. If they do such a poor job with this much riding on it, what will they do with their lowely passenger tires. I will NEVER buy MIchelins.

[Pilot2519j]

Originally Posted by JackG

Don't forget that the tires were *unsafe* in the area of the track that they wanted to place the chicane. If the teams would have gone ahead and run the race, it is likely that there would have been tire failures, wrecks, and possible deaths. Is that really what everyone wants?

Yes, Michelin failed to produce a tire that could hold up to the stress in that one area of the track. When they realized it, they proposed a solution that would let them still run their cars without exposing their drivers to excessive danger. When that didn't fly, they protected themselves by running the warmup lap, then did the only thing they could do... they protected their drivers by pulling out of the race.

It sucks to spend all the money that fans did, just to see that. Would you rather see a couple of drivers die? You'd be screaming for Michelin's head if they knowingly let their drivers run tires that wouldn't hold up, and someone died.

I think they did what they had to do.

Jack

Other than calling them in a polite way a**holes I can't come to terms with their actions. Safety is paramount granted but the obligation to the public overrides that. MIchelin had ample time to prepare for this race and they had all the data from all previous 5 events there. It would be ludicrous to believe their "raison" oh we made a boo boo. The tires are engineered not by one person but a whole team of engineers on this case they should fire the whole team. The FIA in their study came to the conclusion that chicane would not reduced Michelin's problem but even compound it. It was an outright sham to line up and then go the pits. As far as I/m concerned fine them right up to the nose for this grieveous infraction. I would like to imagine this incident done in Europe or any place the fans would have burned the place down!
The FIA should do away with the one tire rule for the whole race since it is a safety issue. It already has happened to Raikkomen, R Shumacher but so far escaping the grim reaper. Eventually the laws of probability will catch up and blood will be spilled. It is unsafe to use the same of tires the same race because it deludes the faster concept favoring tempering your race to save the tires. In car racing that is dumb, always has , always will.

[JackG]

[QUOTE=Pilot2519j]Other than calling them in a polite way a**holes I can't come to terms with their actions. Safety is paramount granted but the obligation to the public overrides that."

"the obligation to the public overides that"? Overides Safety? You are kidding, right?

They have an obligation to you, as the public, to spill blood to reduce your disappointment?

I've never heard something so infantile in all my life!

Reality check... engineering is not infallible. Mistakes are made. Guess what... my, and your, Boxster is not perfect, even with scores of engineers working on its design! Michelin tried to suggest a solution that would keep them in the race, the playing field would still be level, and *you* would not have been disappointed. Instead, the governing body shot it down. They are who you should direct your anger toward, because the entire field would have run, on the same track, with Michelin's proposed changes.

I *applaude* Michelin on taking their driver's lives as being more important than your personal satisfaction.

[Pilot2519j]

I *applaude* Michelin on taking their driver's lives as being more important than your personal satisfaction.[/QUOTE]

First I am not attacking you personally so don't take it wrong even though you allege "I am very infantile over this". I'm an engineer and I know things go wrong at any time nor am proposing Death Race 2000 either but how much time does Michelin need for a track in which they have raced 5 times in the same configuration? On the other hand Bridgestone had the tire for the race. Same configuration same curve same everything, they did their homework and were ready. You are trying to convince me that because one team is not ready Bridegstone, FIA & Indy Grand Prix should acquiesce to Michelin's arrogance. "I don't think so". They should have raced at the tolerance of the tire. IF that means they have to go 45 kph so be it. Their problem, their snafu, engineering faux pas what ever you want to call it their image right now is at rock bottom. I still will emphatically tell you Michelin would not have tried this in Europe.

[Rail26]

Great Debate and I totally agree...but lets thanks limoncello for the info! I'm always thankful for money saving tips or info. Thanks!!! By the way, anybody going to the Molson Indy in Toronto next weekend?

[limoncello]

I've had good performance with Michelins over the years on Volvo's & a couple of other cars. But they shot themselves in the foot at Indy. I agree that they did what they had to do safetywise, but this will leave a sour taste in folks for a while, and deservedly so. Will be curious to see how they recover.
Nuff said, & back to reasonably priced tires for Boxsters: I took some heat on this forum for getting Sumitomos - they're OK for me on the street (I don't push it that hard on the street) but on the track at limit they do scrub around certain corners, and I think the sidewall flex mentioned by another reader correctly identifies the problem. So I will run these tires down some and then change.
Any first hand knowledge of the PS2 or Contisports ON THE TRACK? Would appreciate it.
Also, it seems that going from my 17" to 18" and a lower profile may help on track, at some expense to street comfort. Open for experience on that as well. Thanks.

[pez]

Great Debate!
I too lost out at Indy as well
It’s great to see that Michelin took safety as top priority, to save us from another Williams/Ayrton Senna disaster. However they have raced at Indy several times and should know the stresses involved there.
Several years ago JPM ran a whole race on one set of Michelins and I think that was at Indy but I may be wrong about the track. They even loaded up a jet and flew over a second batch to run and that set failed on the test rig with the same failure. It just seems to be a case of poor engineering but who knows it could be from the recent change in management for Michelin’s F-1 program. Regardless Michelin “was caught with their pants down” plain and simple and was not prepared for Indy. Those Pirelli and Bridgestones are sounding better each day!

Pez