Adjusting Pedals for Heel & Toe

[wild1poet2]

Has anyone adjusted the pedals(brake) for better heel and toe technique??

While I'm managing ok I just feel like the pedals need to be adjusted a bit for a better "feel". I don't even know if the Boxster allows for adjustments. I think the brake pedal feels too high so when I roll my foot edge to blip the throttle I find myself "hunting" sometime. Eventually I'll adapt but i'm considering adjusting the pedals.

Is it just me? Maybe I need to wear a clown shoe.

[EPIQTodd]

It's not just you - I also struggle a bit with it, and I think the pedals in a Boxster are spaced more for street than track.

I purchased these - http://www.epiqautosport.com/mode/products/prid/237/1123 - to go on my Rennline pedals, as you can't really adjust the pedals much, and I don't want to since it might affect the response if there is too much angle going into the weight you apply.

[wild1poet2]

Originally Posted by EPIQTodd

It's not just you - I also struggle a bit with it, and I think the pedals in a Boxster are spaced more for street than track.

I purchased these - http://www.epiqautosport.com/mode/products/prid/237/1123 - to go on my Rennline pedals, as you can't really adjust the pedals much, and I don't want to since it might affect the response if there is too much angle going into the weight you apply.

Thanks Todd! Does this just make the pedal wider??

[insite]

that looks like a pretty slick product! i always had problems with pedals like Vostek because my heal / toe method isn't so much heal and toe as toe and toe. the Vosteks made it too easy for me to accidentally blip the gas during panic stops. looks like i could just use the top pedal extension but leave the bottom uninstalled.

on another note, i did upgrade my pedals from stock to the 'Ebay Special,' which i LOVE. much easier for heel / toe vs. stock. they look like this:

[Rondog]

Would anyone be willing to give me a quick education on heel/toe technique?
I get the basic idea, but not clear when and how it is used...


still just a miserable newbie...

RD

[wild1poet2]

it's just the technique of blipping the throttle to match revs when downshifting while braking. Saves stress on drive train and smooths the downshift, keeps the car balanced by not transferring the car's weight around.

I keep my heel planted at its usual spot near the base of the throttle and use the ball of my foot to brake. When I need to blip the thorttle I roll the outside edge of my right foot onto the throttle pedal to match the revs(keeping brake pressure).

Left foot of course operates the clutch.

Some guys have variants of this but its essentially the same idea.

It's actually easier to do at higher speeds and revs than when you're just trolling along.

The track guys on this forum can probably add to this but basically that's it.

[EPIQTodd]

Originally Posted by wild1poet2

it's just the technique of blipping the throttle to match revs when downshifting while braking. Saves stress on drive train and smooths the downshift, keeps the car balanced by not transferring the car's weight around.

I keep my heel planted at its usual spot near the base of the throttle and use the ball of my foot to brake. When I need to blip the thorttle I roll the outside edge of my right foot onto the throttle pedal to match the revs(keeping brake pressure).

Left foot of course operates the clutch.

Some guys have variants of this but its essentially the same idea.

It's actually easier to do at higher speeds and revs than when you're just trolling along.

The track guys on this forum can probably add to this but basically that's it.

This is pretty much correct on the street, but at the track, if you keep your foot resting with the ball of your foot by the throttle, you'll be off track on the first turn. Most tracks require significant braking (like today I spent at Buttonwillow - a hard track on brakes - see my new post on it, regarding sport cups and camber...) and you need to be ON the brake with full force. With your foot squarely on the brake pedal, you rotate your heel outward (this is the classic 'heel and toe' method, actually) to blip the throttle. This is why pedals are designed with that extra heel extension, but as we've talked about here, it's not enough for many of us.

You have to go beyond the revs needed and you should, if done right, match the revs once you release the clutch with what the new gear is, so you get no lurching and the car stays grounded. Takes a lot of practice, but is absolutely necessary.

[wild1poet2]

Todd, I actually started using the outside edge of my heel this morning with better feel. I was thinking that with the pedal pivoting off the floor this might work well and it did.

[BuffaloBoxster]

I find that the having the gas pedal hinged at the bottom on Porsches really screws with proper heel/toe technique... You just work around it.

The Mini Cooper S I tested last week felt comfortable on heel and toe after only a few downshifts.

[SD987]

In the realm of adjusting pedals for heel-toe shifting and to properly engage the technique you should understand that the brake pedal is ideally depressed to the point that it is at the same "height" as the gas pedal before blipping (as Todd states, on the brakes hard).

If you keep this in mind, you can see why EpiqTodd's technique is more effective than WildPoets' post at 17:39, and why heel-toe braking is more applicable to the track than the street, unless you're in the habit of carrying alot of speed into your street turns.

[EPIQTodd]

Originally Posted by SD987

In the realm of adjusting pedals for heel-toe shifting and to properly engage the technique you should understand that the brake pedal is ideally depressed to the point that it is at the same "height" as the gas pedal before blipping (as Todd states, on the brakes hard).

If you keep this in mind, you can see why EpiqTodd's technique is more effective than WildPoets' post at 17:39, and why heel-toe braking is more applicable to the track than the street, unless you're in the habit of carrying alot of speed into your street turns.

SD987 - on the track, you don't think at all about equidistant ratios between the pedal surface areas in order to optimize heel-toe technique. You think about stopping your car!! Then you think about blipping the throttle before you shift or you lurch and possibly lose traction. Practice on the street, where the speeds are much more controlled and you aren't at the limit.

Most of yesterday, I was pretty much standing on the brake, after needing to decelerate from 115 to maybe 60 in just a short distance right before a 90 degree turn.

The blips in light turns are much easier, more like on the street, but still not quite that easy.

[EPIQTodd]

Here's a quick little online guide - also promoting the brake as the primary position. I'm not sure how you can do it with your heel resting by the throttle, as to stop (unless moving slowly) you need some good pressure on the brakes.

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

[SD987]

Which is why I said "ideally". The original question had to do with adjusting the pedals, and follow up questions had to do with heel-toe technique. My point was that people tend to focus on the relationship between the two pedals from a nearness standpoint, but also should consider the "height" aspect to make employing that technique easier and determine whether pedals are "set up" well for heel-toe.

[eslai]

Originally Posted by EPIQTodd

This is pretty much correct on the street, but at the track, if you keep your foot resting with the ball of your foot by the throttle, you'll be off track on the first turn. Most tracks require significant braking (like today I spent at Buttonwillow - a hard track on brakes - see my new post on it, regarding sport cups and camber...) and you need to be ON the brake with full force. With your foot squarely on the brake pedal, you rotate your heel outward (this is the classic 'heel and toe' method, actually) to blip the throttle. This is why pedals are designed with that extra heel extension, but as we've talked about here, it's not enough for many of us.

Well, a heel extension does absolutely no good on a porsche since the pedals are hinged at the bottom, not the top.

With that in mind, I've never had any problems "heel-toeing" on the Boxster The pedals are perfect for me.

Also, on the track i still use the side of my foot more than the ball for heel toeing, it's all a matter of personal preference I believe. You don't really need to "stand" on the brakes these days what with vaccuum-assist and all.

[wild1poet2]

yep, it does seem my brake pedal is up higher than I would like and the floor hinged throttle makes it a bit different. I imagine individual idiosyncrasies such as foot length and width and even leg length come into play to determine each persons proper technique. I can "physically habituate" to it as is, but was curious if others had made adjustments to the pedals themselves, particularly height adjustments.

Some good comments on this thread. I appreciate it.

[vipola]

Any picture or detailed info about changing the height of the brake pedal?

I used to be good heel&toe (bliping with the two side of my toe) with my 99 boxster, now with my new 2006 boxster S, the brake pedal is too low compared to the gaz and with the 'racing pedal' the trottle is very wide and close of the brake, so when I brake I often press the gas at the same time.. I need to bring my foot all over to the left of the pedal to be able to brake hard without pressing the throttle.. I guess by brighing up the brake pedal they should be at the perfect position

[Mike_Yi]

I use the side of my foot for "heal-toeing," on the street and on the track. My foot is too long to use my heal (my toes hit something up above the pedals). I made an extension on the side of my accelerator out of a chunk of aluminum that works great. Like yours, my brake pedal is too high relative to my accelerator. Surprisingly, my GM has the brake pedals in the perfect position when braking hard. It is exactly level with the accelerator and close enough to make heal-toeing really easy.

Personally, I think building up the accelerator might be easier than changing the position of the brake bedal.

[vipola]

in my case the brake pedal is too LOW..

[tonycarreon]

Originally Posted by Rondog

Would anyone be willing to give me a quick education on heel/toe technique?
I get the basic idea, but not clear when and how it is used...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPj9XXW25GA

[jmatta]

I find the pedals are very well placed in my Box S. I rarely track it, but have driven countless Boxster and 911 variants (as an instructor) and really dislike those pedal extensions. When driving on the track, you apply greater pressure on the brake pedal than street driving, so the pedal is pressed further downward (in response to the pedal appears to be too high). I do track my '73 911 (no power assist) and find the ball of my right foot provides more than enough pressure to brake, while rolling my foot over to blip the throttle. As mentioned earlier, the actual "heel" method is not too effective in a bottom hinge application. YouTube has some excellent videos showing the roll technique...practice on the street becomes second nature on the track.

The Boxster is even easier with the power assist. BTW, get some real driving shoes; it makes a big difference. I once instructed a fella who wanted to go on the track in what equated to hiking shoes...I sent him shopping first.