Recall or government attack?

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Samson

I haven't tried it in my '01.

I wasn't intending to try it on mine, either!!

[stephen wilson]

"The real problem in my mind is not that the throttle sticks, but that the brakes cannot overcome the engine"

You would think so, but in my experience, that's not the case. Similar to what Kurt did, I caught the gas pedal while braking in my Formula Ford, with a whopping 110H.P., and the car still plowed straight off the track. Brakes just aren't designed to overcome engine torque once the car is moving.

edit: That may not be a good comparison, I was at racing speeds, and the FF actually has a decent power to weight ratio. I may have to experiment this weekend with my beater Integra, though it's a stick shift, so I won't try a "standing start" test and fry my clutch.

[husker boxster]

A month or so back, there was a report on the national news about this. It was a 911 phone call from someone in a runaway Camry in San Diego. The caller was telling the 911 operator that they were out of control and what road they were speeding down. The road came to a T intersection and they were going too fast to turn. They tumbled down a steep embankment. Unfortunately there were fatalities when the police arrived. It does sound like the stuck accelorator problem is real.

However, if they had time to call the police on their cell, they should have had time to put it in neutral and shut their ignition off.

[stephen wilson]

OK, experiment complete. With my '94 Integra, in 1st gear, below 4000 RPM I could stop the car with full throttle, above that, the brakes couldn't over-ride the engines power. This is with a manual, an auto should have more available torque available at lower RPM. So, it looks like the ratio of H.P. to braking capacity is a factor.

[Mike_Yi]

The Pontiac Vibe is included in the recall I believe.

[husker boxster]

Originally Posted by Mike_Yi

The Pontiac Vibe is included in the recall I believe.

Yes, it is.

[Perfectlap]

UAW built GM Buick Lacrosse: #1 in three year reliability after a decade of dominance by Lexus.

Toyota: 50 million car recall that could costs billions in lost sales and unecessary fixes.

Never thought I'd see the day...

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

However, if they had time to call the police on their cell, they should have had time to put it in neutral and shut their ignition off.

One would think so, no?
I've taught my family from the time they're old enough to pay attention, all the things I've learned about staying safe while driving. The first and foremost is to never stop right on another car's bumper, so you leave yourself manuevering room, especially in a traffic jam on the interstate. So.......what happens to my younger daughter?? She gets in one of those situations on I-95, stops short like she is taught and see's the car coming from behind is not going to get stopped in time, turns to the girl riding with her and says, "This car's not going to stop." She then sits there watching in the rear view mirror as they are hit hard enough to put the license plate of her new Prelude up under the rear window and get knocked into the rear of the car she had stopped with plenty of distance ahead of her. I asked her why in the hell she didn't pull off to the side of the car in front of her, as she had been taught a gazillion times and she said, "I Never thought of it."

[Perfectlap]

"Toyota has also issued some Dukes of Hazzard style maneuvers drivers should use if they're cruising along and the pedal does, in fact, stick, such as shifting into neutral or turning off the ignition (but don't take the key out!). Do they teach that in driver's ed?"-yahoo.com

sign me up! LOL

Yeah I'm guessing econo boxes from Honda and the US are going to have good year.

[ARModen]

How on earth does turning the car off or taking it out of gear count as "dukes of hazzard" type maneuvers?

[Dave S.]

Toyota has really slipped amd fallen hard where quality is concerned. In 2006 I bought a new Tacoma because I believed their quality was above par.
Now I read on-line about the issues Tacomas have with frame rot (850,000 trucks recalled because the frame rots to pieces within a few years, in some cases trucks have broken in half) and while the recall only applies to 1995-2000 model years, several people are compaining about this issue all the way up to 2006 model year (primarily in rust belt states). There was once a time when the body would rot off the frame on these trucks and now the frame rots out from under the body.
There are also several complaints about accelerator pedals sticking on Tacomas and uncommanded vehicle acceleration including the 2006 model that I have. People have written that when it has happened to their trucks it was definitely not the floor mats causing the problem as Toyota originally claimed, but this vehicle is not included in the current recall.
I haven't had any issues with my truck, but I think I'll be practicing the turn the key off but don't remove it while driving thing before I need to do it for real.

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by ARModen

How on earth does turning the car off or taking it out of gear count as "dukes of hazzard" type maneuvers?

Consider the Yahoo.com source!
Anything that involves a "real" car, rather than a computer simulation is "Dukes of Hazard" to them!!

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

"The real problem in my mind is not that the throttle sticks, but that the brakes cannot overcome the engine"

Odd, Car and Driver mag (issue I received yesterday) tested several cars and it was only at above 500HP that the brakes couldn't stop the car. And the brakes were surprisingly effective.

They did have several criticisms of the programming of the ECU computer and its sensing that the driver was trying to stop. They wanted the start button delay shortened (it doesn't immediately react lest someone inadvertently bump against it while you are at speed) and for it to react to successive presses as other cars do. And for the ECU to sense that the brakes are pressed and automatically cut the gas being fed to the engine. This in addition to the mats sliding and the pedal itself having defects.

If you think dozens of people being killed isn't proof, well then it is just another conspiracy.

[Samson]

Here is an interesting video:
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8980024

[johnsimion]

Granted, the brakes will stop the car with out-of-control throttle, and granted you can put the engine in reverse or turn off the ignition. However, not everybody is a smart, keenly-aware driver. How about that little old lady down the street? How about soccer mom with 4 screaming kids? How about the idiot talking on the cell phone while merging into the freeway without looking? Okay, it's all their fault, but so what, I still don't want them running into me with their runaway Toyota. Toyota made the problem, they have to fix it.

And the exact quote was, "My advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles, stop driving it, take it to the Toyota dealer because they believe they have the fix for it." I don't have a problem with that quote. Stop driving and get it fixed is exactly the right thing to do. This is people twisting statements around for political gain.

[pbanders]

Originally Posted by Samson

Here is an interesting video:
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8980024

That's a very interesting video, first time I've seen one where the brakes couldn't overcome the engine. Might become a new test I do on every new vehicle I'm considering. BTW, the advice he gave (put it in neutral, brake until stopped, shut engine off) is the right stuff.

[mikefocke]

how come Japan is recalling vehicles there? You would presume they would be protective of their industry titan.

Seems like everyone agrees there is a problem...or problems...in a surprising number of Toyota models.

Prius headlights totally and unexpectedly fail and brakes fail on rough pavement being the newest revelation and that came out of Japan.

And it also seems that Toyota has a culture of ignoring problems in the pursuit of growth and profit.

[stephen wilson]

It is an interesting test to perform. I posted my results with a '94 Integra on page 1. It ends up you don't need alot of H.P. to overcome the brakes!
Steve