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Old 01-29-2010, 10:02 AM   #1
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Recall or government attack?

Does anyone know of anyone having any of these supposed problems with gas pedals or throttle bodies?
Call me cynical, but this is surely looking like an attack by the owners of GM, who just happen to be the government, on their competition.
I would not be surprised if this spreads to EVERY car company except GM and Chrysler.
Also is a pretty good diversion from other current government problems/complaints.

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Old 01-29-2010, 10:15 AM   #2
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Sheesh, better go get your bunker ready and if I were you I would not quit your day job to take up prognosticating.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:16 AM   #3
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Hey, I have had several Jap cars over the years. They gave us not so boring design, fun to drive small cars with good reliability. If they have one recall compared to GM's, Chrysler & Fords multitude of issues...great, just shows you they are doing it right and I bet it will never happened again. A bean counter probably came up with the design. And every ones knows how Washington works "SEEK AND DESTROY" your opposition.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:20 AM   #4
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yes

Yes - Last fall a family member of mine was riding in a Toyota that had the gas pedal become stuck while going in reverse. The car sped wildly out of control and ran in to a neighbors garage door. This was after the floor mat recall; the mats were not in the car at the time of the accident. Thankfully everyone was safe.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:42 AM   #5
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From what I've read, it's a real issue that dates back at least as far as '04.

The real problem in my mind is not that the throttle sticks, but that the brakes cannot overcome the engine. Their ~280 hp V6 cars have the same measly brakes as the ~180 hp 4-cylinder cars. That's just not smart.

Another issue is the throttle/brake override. After the Audi 5000 debacle, most (all?) German cars kill the throttle when the brakes are engaged. I'm not sure if it's once a certain threshold is reached or just any brake contact, but that could really hamper left-foot braking (not that 99.99% of car owners would care).

Anyway, I hope this makes Toyota and Lexus used values drop for a little while. I want another IS300.
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:48 AM   #6
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Well that makes me feel better. The talk around here (north Florida) is no one has heard much about the problem. My across the street neighbor is a tech at the big Toyota dealership in the area and he said they had replaced lots of carpets, but no one had complained about any problems with the gas pedals or anything else sticking the throttle.
What made it stick? And if it "sped wildly out of control" did the car step on the pedal itself?
I'm not being fecetious but the pedal can't stick in a position farther than was applied by the driver. This sounds somewhat like the old Audi 5000 claims that they put themselves in gear and opened the throttle. That turned out to be more of a pedal placement issue that had people stepping on the wrong pedal when they acted in an emergency or panic way.
The thing I find suspicious is the magnitude of a problem that was not an issue last week. Then again, maybe it's a slow news week?
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson

Another issue is the throttle/brake override. After the Audi 5000 debacle, most (all?) German cars kill the throttle when the brakes are engaged. I'm not sure if it's once a certain threshold is reached or just any brake contact, but that could really hamper left-foot braking (not that 99.99% of car owners would care).
Are you sure about that?
At the BrumosU course, I stood on the brakes for the stopping box, with Hurley Haywood in my car, no less, and my size 12 shoe caught the throttle pedal also. The brakes were in anti-lock mode and the engine revved against the rev-limiter.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickurt
Are you sure about that?
At the BrumosU course, I stood on the brakes for the stopping box, with Hurley Haywood in my car, no less, and my size 12 shoe caught the throttle pedal also. The brakes were in anti-lock mode and the engine revved against the rev-limiter.
I'm not sure which manufacturers do and do not use this override. It could be the case that Porsche doesn't, and they just rely on their brakes to slow the car down, regardless of throttle position.

I haven't tried it in my '01.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson

I haven't tried it in my '01.
I wasn't intending to try it on mine, either!!
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:42 AM   #10
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"The real problem in my mind is not that the throttle sticks, but that the brakes cannot overcome the engine"

You would think so, but in my experience, that's not the case. Similar to what Kurt did, I caught the gas pedal while braking in my Formula Ford, with a whopping 110H.P., and the car still plowed straight off the track. Brakes just aren't designed to overcome engine torque once the car is moving.

edit: That may not be a good comparison, I was at racing speeds, and the FF actually has a decent power to weight ratio. I may have to experiment this weekend with my beater Integra, though it's a stick shift, so I won't try a "standing start" test and fry my clutch.

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Old 01-29-2010, 01:55 PM   #11
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A month or so back, there was a report on the national news about this. It was a 911 phone call from someone in a runaway Camry in San Diego. The caller was telling the 911 operator that they were out of control and what road they were speeding down. The road came to a T intersection and they were going too fast to turn. They tumbled down a steep embankment. Unfortunately there were fatalities when the police arrived. It does sound like the stuck accelorator problem is real.

However, if they had time to call the police on their cell, they should have had time to put it in neutral and shut their ignition off.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:11 PM   #12
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OK, experiment complete. With my '94 Integra, in 1st gear, below 4000 RPM I could stop the car with full throttle, above that, the brakes couldn't over-ride the engines power. This is with a manual, an auto should have more available torque available at lower RPM. So, it looks like the ratio of H.P. to braking capacity is a factor.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:25 PM   #13
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The Pontiac Vibe is included in the recall I believe.
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:17 PM   #14
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The Pontiac Vibe is included in the recall I believe.
Yes, it is.
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:22 PM   #15
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UAW built GM Buick Lacrosse: #1 in three year reliability after a decade of dominance by Lexus.

Toyota: 50 million car recall that could costs billions in lost sales and unecessary fixes.

Never thought I'd see the day...
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Old 01-29-2010, 07:07 PM   #16
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UAW built GM Buick Lacrosse: #1 in three year reliability after a decade of dominance by Lexus.

Toyota: 50 million car recall that could costs billions in lost sales and unecessary fixes.

Never thought I'd see the day...
+1 on that!
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:17 PM   #17
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I just think it's shame that car manufacturers get away with waiting for some fatalities to occur then say they knew about the problem but did not think it was a major issue. Does anyone remember the Ford Pinto? I think the bean counter at Toyota did the same thing the one at Ford did many years ago, decided that the law suits from deaths would be cheaper than a recall to repair the problem.
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Old 01-29-2010, 08:49 PM   #18
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"Call me cynical, but this is surely looking like an attack by the owners of GM, who just happen to be the government, on their competition.
I would not be surprised if this spreads to EVERY car company except GM and Chrysler.
"



I think you're onto something. The death panels in the health care bill prove those Democrats will stoop to anything.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:08 AM   #19
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I think they may have known about the problem, but there is always a risk analysis done to determine the likelyhood of occurance. Risk is inherent in any design. And then the variation in manufacturing can compound the factors. And the fact that the majority of drivers... well I'll refrain from making comments about driving in America.

Looks like Honda stock will go up. I still won't buy a Government Motors, Fiat or Ford.
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:20 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by husker boxster

However, if they had time to call the police on their cell, they should have had time to put it in neutral and shut their ignition off.
One would think so, no?
I've taught my family from the time they're old enough to pay attention, all the things I've learned about staying safe while driving. The first and foremost is to never stop right on another car's bumper, so you leave yourself manuevering room, especially in a traffic jam on the interstate. So.......what happens to my younger daughter?? She gets in one of those situations on I-95, stops short like she is taught and see's the car coming from behind is not going to get stopped in time, turns to the girl riding with her and says, "This car's not going to stop." She then sits there watching in the rear view mirror as they are hit hard enough to put the license plate of her new Prelude up under the rear window and get knocked into the rear of the car she had stopped with plenty of distance ahead of her. I asked her why in the hell she didn't pull off to the side of the car in front of her, as she had been taught a gazillion times and she said, "I Never thought of it."

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