Recall or government attack?

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Samson

Another issue is the throttle/brake override. After the Audi 5000 debacle, most (all?) German cars kill the throttle when the brakes are engaged. I'm not sure if it's once a certain threshold is reached or just any brake contact, but that could really hamper left-foot braking (not that 99.99% of car owners would care).

Are you sure about that?
At the BrumosU course, I stood on the brakes for the stopping box, with Hurley Haywood in my car, no less, and my size 12 shoe caught the throttle pedal also. The brakes were in anti-lock mode and the engine revved against the rev-limiter.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

Are you sure about that?
At the BrumosU course, I stood on the brakes for the stopping box, with Hurley Haywood in my car, no less, and my size 12 shoe caught the throttle pedal also. The brakes were in anti-lock mode and the engine revved against the rev-limiter.

I'm not sure which manufacturers do and do not use this override. It could be the case that Porsche doesn't, and they just rely on their brakes to slow the car down, regardless of throttle position.

I haven't tried it in my '01.

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Samson

I haven't tried it in my '01.

I wasn't intending to try it on mine, either!!

[stephen wilson]

"The real problem in my mind is not that the throttle sticks, but that the brakes cannot overcome the engine"

You would think so, but in my experience, that's not the case. Similar to what Kurt did, I caught the gas pedal while braking in my Formula Ford, with a whopping 110H.P., and the car still plowed straight off the track. Brakes just aren't designed to overcome engine torque once the car is moving.

edit: That may not be a good comparison, I was at racing speeds, and the FF actually has a decent power to weight ratio. I may have to experiment this weekend with my beater Integra, though it's a stick shift, so I won't try a "standing start" test and fry my clutch.

[husker boxster]

A month or so back, there was a report on the national news about this. It was a 911 phone call from someone in a runaway Camry in San Diego. The caller was telling the 911 operator that they were out of control and what road they were speeding down. The road came to a T intersection and they were going too fast to turn. They tumbled down a steep embankment. Unfortunately there were fatalities when the police arrived. It does sound like the stuck accelorator problem is real.

However, if they had time to call the police on their cell, they should have had time to put it in neutral and shut their ignition off.

[stephen wilson]

OK, experiment complete. With my '94 Integra, in 1st gear, below 4000 RPM I could stop the car with full throttle, above that, the brakes couldn't over-ride the engines power. This is with a manual, an auto should have more available torque available at lower RPM. So, it looks like the ratio of H.P. to braking capacity is a factor.

[Mike_Yi]

The Pontiac Vibe is included in the recall I believe.

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

However, if they had time to call the police on their cell, they should have had time to put it in neutral and shut their ignition off.

One would think so, no?
I've taught my family from the time they're old enough to pay attention, all the things I've learned about staying safe while driving. The first and foremost is to never stop right on another car's bumper, so you leave yourself manuevering room, especially in a traffic jam on the interstate. So.......what happens to my younger daughter?? She gets in one of those situations on I-95, stops short like she is taught and see's the car coming from behind is not going to get stopped in time, turns to the girl riding with her and says, "This car's not going to stop." She then sits there watching in the rear view mirror as they are hit hard enough to put the license plate of her new Prelude up under the rear window and get knocked into the rear of the car she had stopped with plenty of distance ahead of her. I asked her why in the hell she didn't pull off to the side of the car in front of her, as she had been taught a gazillion times and she said, "I Never thought of it."

[Perfectlap]

"Toyota has also issued some Dukes of Hazzard style maneuvers drivers should use if they're cruising along and the pedal does, in fact, stick, such as shifting into neutral or turning off the ignition (but don't take the key out!). Do they teach that in driver's ed?"-yahoo.com

sign me up! LOL

Yeah I'm guessing econo boxes from Honda and the US are going to have good year.

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

"The real problem in my mind is not that the throttle sticks, but that the brakes cannot overcome the engine"

Odd, Car and Driver mag (issue I received yesterday) tested several cars and it was only at above 500HP that the brakes couldn't stop the car. And the brakes were surprisingly effective.

They did have several criticisms of the programming of the ECU computer and its sensing that the driver was trying to stop. They wanted the start button delay shortened (it doesn't immediately react lest someone inadvertently bump against it while you are at speed) and for it to react to successive presses as other cars do. And for the ECU to sense that the brakes are pressed and automatically cut the gas being fed to the engine. This in addition to the mats sliding and the pedal itself having defects.

If you think dozens of people being killed isn't proof, well then it is just another conspiracy.

[Samson]

Here is an interesting video:
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8980024

[johnsimion]

Granted, the brakes will stop the car with out-of-control throttle, and granted you can put the engine in reverse or turn off the ignition. However, not everybody is a smart, keenly-aware driver. How about that little old lady down the street? How about soccer mom with 4 screaming kids? How about the idiot talking on the cell phone while merging into the freeway without looking? Okay, it's all their fault, but so what, I still don't want them running into me with their runaway Toyota. Toyota made the problem, they have to fix it.

And the exact quote was, "My advice is, if anybody owns one of these vehicles, stop driving it, take it to the Toyota dealer because they believe they have the fix for it." I don't have a problem with that quote. Stop driving and get it fixed is exactly the right thing to do. This is people twisting statements around for political gain.

[pbanders]

Originally Posted by Samson

Here is an interesting video:
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=8980024

That's a very interesting video, first time I've seen one where the brakes couldn't overcome the engine. Might become a new test I do on every new vehicle I'm considering. BTW, the advice he gave (put it in neutral, brake until stopped, shut engine off) is the right stuff.