Will the 987 Boxsters become classics?

[Steve Tinker]

There was an interesting article in one of the Petroleum Institute's magazines a while ago discussing the "lifespan" of modern plastics and synthetic rubbers (for use of a better word). The general opinion was a life of approximately 20 years before the plastics lose their lubricity and bonding agents leading to decomposition. I think that foam rubber is a typical example, is it starts to decompose after less than 10 years, sometimes after 5 years for the cheaper stuff.
The magazine article noted that the plastics were still degenerating even in original packaging stored in warehouses.
And doesn't the Boxster have quite a few "plastic" engine parts in the sump subject to temperatures, oils and acids???
So what will the newer dashboards, arm rests, seat foam and door cards look like in (say) 30 years time when a normal, everyday type vehicle starts to become a classic to Joe Average - 'cos he had one as a kid?

[Lordblood]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Of course, there are probably some 300,000+ Miata owners who might disagree with you...

If you don't see it that way... you just don't get it.

Cheers!

Oh shoot, totally forgot about the Miata! That just tells you how much I think about classics.

I actually don't think the Boxster will be known for anything, at least not outside the Porsche world. I think to Porsche owners, the 914 is classic, but ask anyone else and they wouldn't have a clue.

Really there are so many other similar cars out there now that it's become an everyday car. The Miata will be looked upon as the car that relaunched the roadster, the Audi TT will be known for its looks (I believe it caused quite a stir when it was first launched, I was about 6 so I wouldn't know...), maybe even the Z4 might become known for its looks as well.

Really the Boxster was created only to compete with the SLK and Z3.

[Quickurt]

Quite a few compared the Boxsters to 914s. I had three 914-4s, over the years, and one '70 - 914-6.
I wouldn't want to trade the sophistication of my 987S for any of them, but, then again, there's no such thing as tossing the 987 around the way you could "toss and catch" the 914-6.
When I started racing formula fords in the mid 70s, it was just a nice big step ahead of tossing around my 914-6. You could set it up into a corner and at whatever angle you wanted to continue thru the corner, you simply stabbed the throttle and caught it by planting the rear tires with power. The absolute beauty of an extreme low polar moment car.(all the weight in the center)
Anyone who never drove on hot slicks just doesn't know what they are missing!!! :dance:

[landrovered]

The Boxster will not become a classic the Boxster is a throwback to classics of the past but with all the modern conveniences.

Just like the Miata.

All the fun of the Fiat, Triumph, MG, Jag, Porsche, Austin Healy and other roadsters of the past without the greasy hands and Lucas electrics.

Will it survive as a popular model long in the future...I think no. The popular auction cars today are all vehicles that folks are buying because the could not afford them when they were new. The fact that retro mod cars are bringing more money than original restorations speaks to the desire for drivability. Drivability and modernity are a moving target. This year it is different than the last.

The models that will be popular in the future have higher price tags than a Boxster. The Veyron, Ferrari, Lamborhini, Spyker, Ascari, Koenings, Carrera GT will likely be more collectible becuase a Boxster is actually afordable.

[Jacques79]

Actually my 2006 Boxster S only weighs 2965 pounds compared to the 2855 pounds of my 2000 Boxster S.

Add to that the fact that my 987S has the optional sport seats and the curb weight drops to 2945 pounds.

So all in all only a 90 pound increase in weight but with 30 more horsepower, a stiffer chassis and better suspension.

Far from 200-300 pounds...

The only thing I miss about my old 986S was the steering feel. The 987S has great feel, but not as communicative as the old one.

[Quickurt]

My 2006 S weighs 2885. It has one option - Litronics.
I weighed it on certified scales at the track. It had about 1/4 tank of gas.
I've also now cut 25 lb. with new wheel/tire combo and that's unsprung weight!

[greg9ball]

The direction of this post took a direction other than I intended, which of course is fine. It has been an interesting thread.

What I was hoping to discuss was to compare the 987 (or 986 - there was no offense intended to the 986. I haven't driven one so I have no opinion of it in a meaningful way) to the 911 993.

The 993 has become a highly desirable car. I know that a lot of the appeal is that it is the last of the air cooled engines. The 993 is not necessarily a classic yet; however, a lot of people are buying the 993s instead of the now less expensive 996s. There was just something special about the 993 that future 911s have not captured, despite improvements in performance. There is something special about the 993 that transcends specifications and performance.

My question was meant to ask if the current Boxster 987 (or 986) is that type of car. Is the Boxster really special? I'm not asking what it will be worth 40 years from now. Will it be the car that we think back of as a really special car. Will it be the car we wished we never sold? Will it be the car that a few years from now, Porsche fanatics find more appealing then than they do now?

I think it truly is a special car. I think we are nearing the end of an error for sports cars, just like the beginning of the 70's. It will not surprise me if over the next five years, we start to see HP specifications go down with new models instead of up. Most people didn't know they owned a special car in the late 60's / early 70's. A lot of 993 owners upgraded to 996's and now wish they had never sold their 993s.

I've been a car jumper for several years. I've jumped from car to car from the following cars: Q45, Acura CL type S, Honda S2000, 2002 Corvette, Lexus SC430 to the 2005 Boxster S. The Boxster S is the first car that I have owned where I wasn't looking for the next car within a year. I've owned it two years. When the itch to get something different finally kicked in, I just couldn't figure out what I would want instead. I'd still trade my Boxster for a 993 Turbo, but I'm not willing to pay 30K more for it! It was after this exercise of trying to decide what I would want to own next, that I decided that there really is something special about the Boxster.

Someone said in a post on this forum, that the Boxster was just a stop on the way in his quest for cars. It wasn't a "destination." I've come to the conclusion, after two years of ownership, that perhaps the Boxster S is a destination for me. I really love this car! It is such a great balance of everything I want in a car (except that my drums don't fit!).

In fact, I decided when I bought it that I would not upgrade the stereo for a year, just in case I decided I wanted something different. After a year, I thought about putting in a stereo. I knew I loved the car, but I was still worried that I might become fickle again. Its been two years and I love the car more than ever. I'm putting a ring on the boxster's finger with a stereo upgrade!


I was wondering of others felt the same way.

Greg

[rick3000]

I don't think the Boxster will ever be sought after like the 993. The people that want a 993 now, are the guys that couldn't afford one when they came out and now have enough cash to finally get one.
The Boxster is going to be more like the 914 (or Spitfire, MG, etc), bought for being a fun 2 seater convertible that you can pick up cheaper than a new Porsche and still enjoy immensely.

Right now the Boxster is my 'destination car,' I wouldn't even trade it for a 996. But I can't say how I will feel in a few years, I may have to get a 987, or would it be 988 by then.

[70Sixter]

Who'da thought the Model T would be a classic in 1929?! And the 64-66 original Mustang has already been mentioned. Hows 'bout 2CV?

They were ************************************ cars. Everybody had one. So they mostly got trashed, hotrodded or left in garages as worthless.

Even the big-engined monsters from the 70s that are so valuable now fell to worthless when gas got expensive. And they were terrible cars except for straight line acceleration. I know - I had a 67.5 Firebird 400 4sp with the hood tach.

And the Speedster! Porsche hated it and thought it was not a real Porsche. Thank you Max Hoffman. I remember when they were cheap used cars listed in Panorama for numbers that make me hate myself for not snapping one up. And a lot were bought as DDs until they died or rusted away. Or tracked.

I watch prices in Hemmings and am regularly amazed at the prices brought by reasonably maintained or restored cars like the 67 Mini Moke for $22k!

So do I think someone will eventually pay way too much for an original paint, numbers matching stock Boxster that has been gently used and painstakingly cared for by one owner?

Absolutely.

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by mebiuspower

]You can argue all gasoline cars will all become classic when we have flying cars.

Speaking of flying cars, I was told by my dad that by the time I was middle aged, I'd probably have a personal jet pack AND a flying car.

Automotive technology has really moved slowly if you ask me! At this rate my boxster will never become a classic.

[Franco]

My car a classic wow...

Porsche Classic - Information about your Porsche vintage car - Porsche Cars North America

[Bruce Wayne]

Indeed.. the 986 is *already* a classic.

i have a classic car collection that is ever changing depending on what moves me at the time, i've just sold off most of my classic porsches and switched out to some others, i felt i'd made well out of them and fancied a change..

It's often tough to determine what makes a classic. cars produced in small numbers ? sometimes.. but look at the maerati bi-turbo, compared with some cars that were the everyday run around and were junked en-masse !

It really seems to be iconic cars, they may not need to be limited number production, but limited remaining numbers.. so fords are fetching silly money even though they were produced in large numbers and were junked in large numbers as they got old, what remains is now in the classic market..

The 986 is now a calssic and the prices have stabilised for good examples.. so for me, what i look for is origionality.. as it came out of the factory, with no owner modifications... as per the build sheet, and i do change something out, like a throttle body, keep the origional one in a box to stay with the car..

Records too.. orgional service book, with reciepts and documented ownership.. this all goes to to the history of the vehicle. i buy replacement bolts for something, reciept goes in the file..

This is what classic car buyers look for.. origionality and records..

As the 986 has found it's way into owners what want the marque, have modified and personalised the vehicle, undertaken shoddy repairs and left the car worthless, origional, unmolested 986's with history files have now become few and far between.

As 911's with G50 gearboxes now move into big money and other Porsches have risen in value, getting an affordable classic that wont eat your lunch to buy and maintain gets harder, future classic owners start to look wider at the range, as they are now doing with 986's and so values start to rise.

Is the 986 a classic.. it's now there.. !

[Fyeganeh]

Well I am the original owner of my 2000 Boxster that I got it in December 1999. There is no way I would sell it - to me it was a classic the day I bought it. Most of the people on these boards are second to fifth owners and they have gotten the car for a steal - which is great. But in some ways they underestimate its potential value and are willing to sell it at a low price to move on especially since they got it at a reasonable price. Given inflation and the number of Boxters dying off there is no doubt that in 10-15 years the price of an old Boxster will be the same or higher than what it is selling for today. Would you have thought in 1965 that the average car would be selling for 25000-35000 in 2013? What will the average car sell for in 2050?

If you were to buy a new Boxster today - the first year of ownership - depreciation would cost you 9000. The same for the next 2-3 years. So if you buy an old Boxster and it lasts 3 years, you are already ahead 18,000. I haven't driven a new one but I doubt it's that much better. So when someone sells it for 8000, from my perspective they are losing sight of its value. In the end, these cars will be scrapped because the owner won't want to put in the money to maintain it. That will create scarcity.

Will it go for more than a 993 - probably never, but might a 986 go for more than a 996 - you never know - if you guys scrap enough of them - maybe I'll find out in 20 years....

[BIGJake111]

If boxsters were made in the 80s with respective power and comparability to a mr2 turbo they likely wouldn't be too collectible today. They'd fetch something inbetween a clean 944 and a clean 928. Around 10-20k honestly no different than what they are worth now.

However due to when the boxster was produced, as it is currently reaching the start of the appreciation curve, Porsche is the producer of the most electric car models of any auto maker if you count the 918. Porsche may be one of the last companies making naturally aspirated, manual gear shift, models, but they are quickly turning to turbos. (981 spyder may be the next 914-8!)

So the point is. The boxster is starting to creep up in value, and simultaneously. It may be the first water cooled Porsche's, but it's also one of the last naturally aspirated manual, no traction control cars.

I actually think a clean 2.5 boxster may be the best bet for the future. Due to this assumption, I think powered up 981s that still have a flat 6 particularly a larger one with minimal technical aids will be worth something. But I also think the 986 has a great future. Public opinion on boxsters and caymans are changing, we arnt the only ones that think we might would take one over a 911. Let's just hope opinion builds enough before the cars become 4 cylinders.

[Bruce Wayne]

Public opinion on boxsters and caymans are changing, we arnt the only ones that think we might would take one over a 911.

I've thought myself about changing the 986 for a 911, maybe a 996, but really, what for. from the doors forward it's the same as the 986, same engine, gearbox and the boxster being mid engined handles excellently.

I think that will also be a plus point for the 986. it's the same as a 996 911, but better !

People have woken up to the fact, for all the old claims, 'it's not a real porsche is it' to realise.. yes.. it is !

[Bald Eagle]

It depends on your definition of "classic." Are we comparing the 986 /7 to Bugatti, Dusenberg, XK120 Jag? If so, I don't think our cars will ever attain those values or that rarified honor.

Maybe a better term is "collectible." I'm sure that any look at the 2030 Hemmings will find 986's and people will be paying good money for good examples while still enjoying them for their many wonderful attributes.

Another term we need to consider is "valuable." Looking at a current Hemmings I see cars that I love, owned, and drove in my youth - TR3, MG T's, A and B, Austin Healy Sprite and 3000, 356, etc. as both collectible and valuable (at many different levels depending on condition, mileage, originality, etc.

Getting back to the question, my bet is that the 986 and 987 will be about equal in collectability and value, much like the model-progression of MG TC, TD, TF, A, B or TR 2, 3, 4 - affordable collectibles.

As for me, I bought a 2000 986 S last year with just 10,000 miles in pristine condition with all maintenance documented, stored it for the winter, plan on keeping up with all maintenance as needed, and keep it as original and pristine as I can while enjoying the driving experience of using it as a piece of transportation I truly enjoy for about 1000 miles per month. It is a "usable classic" to me and I intend on keeping it for as long as I can get in and out of it without causing my back to go out.

Larry (the Bald Eagle)

[BRAN]

Originally Posted by Fyeganeh

Well I am the original owner of my 2000 Boxster that I got it in December 1999. There is no way I would sell it - to me it was a classic the day I bought it. Most of the people on these boards are second to fifth owners and they have gotten the car for a steal - which is great. But in some ways they underestimate its potential value and are willing to sell it at a low price to move on especially since they got it at a reasonable price. Given inflation and the number of Boxters dying off there is no doubt that in 10-15 years the price of an old Boxster will be the same or higher than what it is selling for today. Would you have thought in 1965 that the average car would be selling for 25000-35000 in 2013? What will the average car sell for in 2050?

If you were to buy a new Boxster today - the first year of ownership - depreciation would cost you 9000. The same for the next 2-3 years. So if you buy an old Boxster and it lasts 3 years, you are already ahead 18,000. I haven't driven a new one but I doubt it's that much better. So when someone sells it for 8000, from my perspective they are losing sight of its value. In the end, these cars will be scrapped because the owner won't want to put in the money to maintain it. That will create scarcity.

Will it go for more than a 993 - probably never, but might a 986 go for more than a 996 - you never know - if you guys scrap enough of them - maybe I'll find out in 20 years....

Original owner myself, November 2000 MY01...exactly my words/thoughts! My 986 was a classic to me the day I picked it up in Zuffenhausen
+1

[thstone]

Originally Posted by greg9ball

Will the 987 Boxster become classics?

Classic - yes, if you are willing to wait long enough.

Collectable - no, not ever.

[cas951]

I can think of three Boxsters/Cayman that may have a shot of becoming a collectible classic. Not just classic.

1. Boxster Spyder: they are unique from all other Boxsters, limited in numbers and great track car. The manual top might actually be a big plus in the future.

2. As BigJake mentioned earlier, a clean first year production Boxster.

3. Cayman Sport in rare color and options. How many of you ever seen one or e en heard of one? Hudker Boxster has a nice one in green. These are very rare and was geared for track use.

[robbiex1]

Given that all future Porsche boxsters (and maybe all Porsches) will be turbo'd 4s and 6s, the current and previous gen boxsters might become more desirable....but who knows.

Personally, I don't care. I didn't buy my car to have it sit in the garage and appreciate in value. I bought it to drive and hear the angry flat6 wail past 4000rpm.