Dispeling M96 engine rumors

[Brucelee]

No stats available.

Who would supply them Porsche?

[mikefocke]

Publishing stats would be like admitting there was a problem, they were aware of it, and they were tracking it.

And it would be raw meat for plaintiff's lawyers and salespersons of competing brands.

Not to mention I don't know of another company who has made public such statistics except while under lawsuit from a well financed legal team.

I don't think we'll ever learn em.

[jmatta]

What ever happened to Brian Porsche Tech, AKA "The Phantom"?

2 posts and gone (or lurking under another name, yet again?)

[Steve Tinker]

Originally Posted by jmatta

What ever happened to Brian Porsche Tech, AKA "The Phantom"?

2 posts and gone (or lurking under another name, yet again?)

I was just thinking the same as I re-read this thread.
Sure caused a stir and then poooffff, vanished - only to start somewhere else...........

[Paul]

Or perhaps it's because no one on this board believes anything from old Porsche techs especially when they have no agenda and nothing to sell.

[Boxtaboy]

Yep. I think he was only trying to help out and explain things as he saw it from his perspective. If no one wanted to listen, then fine...no sweat off his back. Personally, I'm glad he posted.

[landrovered]

I will call it like I see it. Take it however you want.

All makes have problems. All engine series have problems. If you think Porsche has problems try a Land Rover. A perfect example of high dollar vehicles with sophisticated engineering and lots of problems. This does not make them a bad marque, their products are fantastic and IMO worth the effort. I should know I have three at present.

Porsche is another marque that suffers from "unrealistically high expectations" from the buying public at large. Again they have their problems but they are quite remarkable in their dependability given how they are used and abused.

Many think that every car off the line should be able to be driven as a daily driver and run like a banshee on the track every weekend and never ever have a mechanical fault or failure. "After all I paid $80k for this thing". This attitude is why I think service writers at dealerships are the most underpaid folks on the planet.

Knowledge is power.

The impossible dream of 100% reliability can be approached but never obtained. With intimate knowledge of the vehicle, an informed owner can head off failures and minimize the cost of repairs when those failures occur.

Knowing what can go wrong should not make you stay up at night worrying about impending failures or change the extent that you enjoy your car. That is not the point of gaining knowledge.

The other thing I see in this thread is a pissing contest.

Jake has installed himself as the forum guru and does not take kindly to others questioning his knowledge, character or cred.

I have spoken to Flat Six about my Boxster and have no beef with their accumen, professionalism or ability.

In the same vein I have no reason to doubt the character of Porsche mechanics offering their experience here either.

The feeling I got from Flat Six was that my Porsche engine was a ticking time bomb that was destined to fail at any minute. It made me worry.

After further reasearch, I don't think that is the case. It is something to be aware of, but should not ruin my driving experience.

I have the ability to make up my own mind, to seek my own data, draw my own conclusions.

[Brucelee]

Lets keep it civil here. Jakes is a well respected member here who gives much of his time and attention to questions on the engines.

Do these engines have issues:

Ah, yeah.

Ask my neighbor. She is still muttering about her 12K mile, one year old Box.

Seems the engine imploded on her at a traffic light.

[landrovered]

Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated. I did this as respectfully as possible. I have nothing but respect for Jake and Flat Six, I just think the holiday IMS failure count is giving a skewed impression of the size of the problem.

[CenterIsl]

Originally Posted by landrovered

The feeling I got from Flat Six was that my Porsche engine was a ticking time bomb that was destined to fail at any minute. It made me worry.

No...their "tick...tick...BOOM!" ad page 6 of February Excellence shows a stethascope - they want you to have the image of your heart exploding, not a time bomb. Very professional indeed.

I'm on my 3rd engine after less than 82,000 miles - after my second engine failed, Jake Raby spent more than a half hour of his time trying to diagnose over the phone, and then explaining to me, in detail, the options I had.

He never tried to sell me his services, or pressured me in any way - he simply presented the facts. A few months later, I had the chance to visit flat6. Jake took me on a tour, and showed me the failed engines he and his crew had torn down, and showed me the upgrades he'd made to help extend the engines life.

He struck me as a passionate, honest and an extremely detailed person...and with my own eyes I saw the customer cars with failed engines sitting in his parking lot, the failed lifters, the dozens of engines with bad IMS, d-chunked or had cracked heads.

I just suggest, before you judge, give him a call, or if you're close by, pay him a visit. You'll be impressed with his shop and his character.

[gRed04]

Originally Posted by Fred Demara

I'm on my 3rd engine after less than 82,000 miles -

Wow, I have to wonder out loud why anyone would continue to pour money in any type of car with that kind of major failure rate.

Makes me shake me head just like when I read about 5 yr old cars being parted out because of major failure and the cost to repair exceeds the value.

Originally Posted by gRed04

Wow, I have to wonder out loud why anyone would continue to pour money in any type of car with that kind of major failure rate.
.

Yeah, I agree, it's really a shame. The car drives better than anything other car I've owned - the key for me has been "taking the plunge" and doing the work myself, which greatly reduces the $$ that one has to pour into it.

[landrovered]

I will not drive a car that I can not work on myself. I am sure that the warranty repairs will be quite traumatic for me on the new Cayman S. Perhaps they will let me do the work and just supervise?

Originally Posted by landrovered

I will not drive a car that I can not work on myself. I am sure that the warranty repairs will be quite traumatic for me on the new Cayman S. Perhaps they will let me do the work and just supervise?

landrovered, just curious - did you get an extended warranty? and if you mind me asking, how much was it?

thx

[navair]

So, does anybody have hard data for the production cut in of the single row IMS bearing vice the older (and "better") twin row? I have an '02 (may 2002) 'S', hoping mine has the dual row. I missed a chance to have the bearing changed out when I had the clutch done at 40K (almost free due to a RMS leak fixed under warranty), dammit!

[landrovered]

The 98 boxster is long out of warranty and I do the work on it. The 2010 Cayman S is standard warranty, it is ordered and not here yet. But I am not a fan of extended warranties as a rule.

I have an 03 Range Rover HSE and I looked at an aftermarket warranty on it but after getting into the nitty gritty of it, there were too many exemptions to make it worth while to me. Like it only covered failures for oiled parts. For example a blown head gasket is not covered because it is not an oiled part.

It sounds like you like to get your hands dirty as I do. I am meticulous about my vehicles and most average auto repair shops quality of work is far below my minimum standard, so I do it myself.

I have a friend with a very sucessful Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche shop. He used to be a factory mechanic at Lamborghini, he is Italian. Not a "pimp my ride" kind of place but a real repair shop, he actually worked on a Veyron recently. I have learned so much hanging around his place. What I learned is that his expertise is in his head because he uses the same basic tools that I do. Nothing special, he just knows what he is doing and does it well.

I will have the Cayman S serviced at the dealership during the warranty period but after that it is mine!

Originally Posted by landrovered

It sounds like you like to get your hands dirty as I do.

When I have the time, I love it. I test drove a 09 Boxster a few weeks back - I remember the salesman saying it was a basic 4yr/50k warranty - but I never got the details if they had an extended "Factory" (which I'm sure they do). Normally I'd be with you on the extended warranties, but if was say, 3k for a 7year/100k for powertrain, I'd get it...but that's just me.

Sounds like your experience with 3rd party warranties is about on par with what I've heard. Which is too bad - be nice to have a good reliable extended warranty without any loopholes.

[landrovered]

Fred,

They had a bumper to bumper option that covered everything but tires and washer fluid but it was expensive. From the sounds of your woes, the oiled parts gig would have covered you without any issues.

Here is a page that has a lot of good info. It is not Land Rover exclusive they do other makes as well. I believe the fellow I spoke to was named Hal.

[pbanders]

Very interesting thread. Jake is also well-known and well-respected in the 914 community. The work he's done on understanding M96 failure modes is outstanding. If Porsche had any sense, they'd fly him to Germany to debrief their engineers. Oh, and bring Navarro, too

I knew the issues when I bought my used Boxster. I have no interest in owning a sports car that I cannot drive at 10/10ths when I want to. So that I can do this and minimize the risks and consequences of failures, I keep on top of all maintenance, and I also bought an aftermarket warranty. If I have a problem, will the warranty pay? Who knows, but having proper service records and a spotless engine with no leaks probably will help my case. I also am financially able to deal with paying for an engine replacement, if I have to.

I wish I lived near Jake, as I'd have him update the engine with his latest improvements and monitor any issues. My mechanics here know about his work and I trust them to keep on top of things.