Dispeling M96 engine rumors

[Jake Raby]

Nope, that rant had nothing to do with the Funeral... Its been coming for a long time and I finally released some steam. I promise to do that from this point forward EVERY time someone makes a smart assed remark thats uncalled for instead of letting it build by trying too be too damn nice.

The tick, tick boom ad campaign is over. You'll like the new one.

[landrovered]

Don't waste any time trying to be nice. It is over rated. All this "can't we all get along" BS is for forum pansies. I'd rather just take the gloves off and get it done.

Looking forward to the new campaign.

Cheers

[CenterIsl]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The tick, tick boom ad campaign is over. You'll like the new one.

Um, it's front-and-center on your home page...with a modified tagline - is that the "new one"?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by CenterIsl

Um, it's front-and-center on your home page...with a modified tagline - is that the "new one"?

The new one is entirely different and focuses on performance.

No need to advertise that we have support for failures, plenty of biz there!

[Gent]

Y'know, it's weird the way people act on the net. I have a friend who has his own shop, works on Mercedes, has everything MB does including the Star system. He maintains contacts overseas, visits suppliers in Europe and Asia, used to race MB, he is cheaper than MB, ridiculously knowledgeable and helpful, et cetera.

Much like Jake has experienced, every once in a while somebody bungees into a forum from thin air, casts doubt and aspersions - then disappears.

He has a very Zen attitude about it and refuses to even acknowledge them.

Thanks for the work, Jake.

[Jake Raby]

He has a very Zen attitude about it and refuses to even acknowledge them.

Thats not me. If someone starts crap with me for no reason I'll fight till the last ounce of energy is in my body to shut their mouth.

[Gent]

LOL, yeah I'm more of a confrontational sort as well; however, my friend is Asian so maybe Zen is easier for him than it is for celts.

It certainly brings people to the table when these online matches occur!

In any event, I have found you to be helpful and pleasant in the limited exchanges we've had. I still intend to ship you my car when I have the dough to do it right.

[QUOTE=JAAY]We are fortunate to have a real Porsche engine builder/designer on this forum. The man has the best reputation and needs not to back up anything he says. QUOTE]

Could not have been said better. There are two, maybe three people on this board who really, really know their stuff. Jake is #1 - I'm very grateful whenever someone posts a question and he answers it.

[jpn]

I will be getting a 2000 boxster soon....hi milage around 90K. Car runs good, no funny noises and leaks I noticed...Do you suggest refitting a new IMS just for preventive purposes....the engine hasnt been opened up ever since new.....

I have no plans of tracking it...just gonna enjoy the car for drives in twisty mountain road...

[rick3000]

If it's a 2000 you don't really need to worry, IMS only affects post-01 cars. I don't even think Raby's retrofit will work on a pre-01 car since the redesigned IMS is what caused a the problem.

[Dragonwind]

Originally Posted by jpn

I will be getting a 2000 boxster soon....hi milage around 90K. Car runs good, no funny noises and leaks I noticed...Do you suggest refitting a new IMS just for preventive purposes....the engine hasnt been opened up ever since new.....

I have no plans of tracking it...just gonna enjoy the car for drives in twisty mountain road...

You'll love it! I would get it done along with the clutch (and get the new RMS too). Everything that can be done while the transmission is off saves $ down the road and having the IMS peace of mind is worth it IMO. Mine's a 99 that just passed 90k and I try to drive it as much as possible. Nothing like a warm day with the top down on a twisty road in a Boxster!

Chris

[rick3000]

Originally Posted by Dragonwind

You'll love it! I would get it done along with the clutch (and get the new RMS too). Everything that can be done while the transmission is off saves $ down the road and having the IMS peace of mind is worth it IMO. Mine's a 99 that just passed 90k and I try to drive it as much as possible. Nothing like a warm day with the top down on a twisty road in a Boxster!

Chris

Like I said IMS rarely, if ever affects pre-01 Boxsters. But I agree, enjoy the car!

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by rick3000

If it's a 2000 you don't really need to worry, IMS only affects post-01 cars. I don't even think Raby's retrofit will work on a pre-01 car since the redesigned IMS is what caused a the problem.

Absolutely incorrect.

The IMS syndrome is clearly an issue with ALL models and years of the M96, including pre-01 models.

The IMSR procedure and bearing is applicable to all M96 engines from 1997-2005.

[rick3000]

It may be applicable to all years, but is it worth it for all years? I don't think it's that clear.
What percentage of 1998-2000 Boxsters experience IMS failure, and what percentage of 2001-2005 Boxsters experience IMS failure?
No one has the these statistics and without them it is impossible to say if your IMS retrofit is a good investment for all model years. But like the OP said the original IMS was fairly reliable and more so than later IMS bearings, where you retrofit is probably not a bad idea.

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Absolutely incorrect.

The IMS syndrome is clearly an issue with ALL models and years of the M96, including pre-01 models.

The IMSR procedure and bearing is applicable to all M96 engines from 1997-2005.

I called F6I and asked a similar question and I was told that my 97k mile boxster motor was at the end of its service life and that it was not a good value for my money. I appreciated this realistic assessment of my options and took the advice.

Let's be realistic about what is cost effective in preventative maintenance and what is not.

[mikefocke]

to do the IMS when you are going to be doing a clutch so as to reduce the expense of the "prevention" by using the clutch replacement engine removal of transmission to gain access.

So assuming you aren't going to just abandon the car when the clutch starts to slip...there are older cars where IMS replacement makes sense.

Would I do it on a '97 with 100k+ miles on it if I didn't need a clutch? No. I wouldn't. But I accept risk well. Others may not. (I also change my '01S's oil 3x more frequently and never drive when it doesn't totally warm up)

Plus there are some who value their cars for emotional reasons beyond strictly rational economics and for them it makes sense to pay $3k to prevent on a $8k car...or even $20k for a new engine for the car.

Not everyone has the same values...now isn't that the understatement of this century.

[landrovered]

I agree completely with combining the IMS with the clutch. If the car has made it close to 100k then you have the luxury of being more opportunistic in your timing.

I have many high mileage engines in my collection. I have 240k on a 94 chevy truck, 214k on a 93 Range Rover and 97k on the Boxster. I consider the Boxster to be the "fresh" engine.

I guess you could say that I value what I buy and take care of it.

I see the high mileage in the Boxster as an opportunity to upgrade the motor when it does meet its demise. But realistically the priorities change when you are approaching the end of the service life.

I did a valve job on a V8 with 168k on it. The bottom end was strong, oil pressure was good, the engine had not been overheated. It made sense.

I have also pulled and replaced motors with a lot fewer miles.

It is a judgement call.

With the Porsche, I think my schekles are better spent on a nice 3.6L that I can blueprint and do the IMS upgrade on the new motor than putting it into the older motor.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by landrovered

I called F6I and asked a similar question and I was told that my 97k mile boxster motor was at the end of its service life and that it was not a good value for my money. I appreciated this realistic assessment of my options and took the advice.

Let's be realistic about what is cost effective in preventative maintenance and what is not.

No one knows percentages, but I have the failure logs and field the majority of the most colorful phone calls. I hear from people who have had failures from the IMS bearing from all years and models. In another year or so we should have enough trend data from the failure log to make our own forecasts, but I'll never release them.

Everyone looks for a number, a percentage but they don't realize that a hell of a lot of this failure is related to nothing more than luck as with anything thats mechanical.

We do not apply the IMSR in our facility for cars that have over 85K miles. We hope to avoid instances where an engine fails due to high mileage (from one of the 20 modes of failure) and the IMSR gets the finger pointed at it un-fairly. We are doing EVERYTHING possible to avoid situations that can negatively impact the procedure and the bearing's reputation- even if that means some lost sales. When an engine fails people become fairly selfish looking to find anyone possible to absorb the costs associated and I don't make a very good pin cushion.

Other shops are applying the bearing that we have provided in cars of any mileage, but we are not doing that here in my facility.

[rick3000]

If everyone is looking for statics, why wouldn't you release them when you get them?

I would merely like to advocate that people stop getting so scared about IMS, enjoy their cars, and determine whether Raby's retrofit is a good idea, without someone telling them that 'Tick, Tick, Boom' there engine is likely to die tomorrow. If your engine was that likely to die, Porsche would have been forced to issue a recall, period. Raby provides insurance, however he also deals with the worst cars daily. There have been over 200k Boxster made, and I seriously doubt he has seen an significant percentage of those. If he saw a thousand cars with IMS thats .5% of all Boxsters made.

I think this thread has some valid information, and the first few paragraphs of this are a good explaination of the M96 and what the IMS retrofit can do without any scary 'your clock is ticking' mentality.

[tnoice]

Originally Posted by rick3000

If everyone is looking for statics, why wouldn't you release them when you get them?

I would merely like to advocate that people stop getting so scared about IMS, enjoy their cars, and determine whether Raby's retrofit is a good idea, without someone telling them that 'Tick, Tick, Boom' there engine is likely to die tomorrow. If your engine was that likely to die, Porsche would have been forced to issue a recall, period. Raby provides insurance, however he also deals with the worst cars daily. There have been over 200k Boxster made, and I seriously doubt he has seen an significant percentage of those. If he saw a thousand cars with IMS thats .5% of all Boxsters made.

I think this thread has some valid information, and the first few paragraphs of this are a good explaination of the M96 and what the IMS retrofit can do without any scary 'your clock is ticking' mentality.

Well Said, could not say it better myself.

If it dies, it dies. As I have learned, death is inevitable. It does not matter whether it is a family member, a friend, a pet, or a beloved car. You need to enjoy the time you spend with it and not always worry about its demise.