Dispeling M96 engine rumors

[landrovered]

Well it is obvious that there are two camps here...as the other thread so aptly put it "this horse has been beaten", I concur.

Your either a Tick tick Boomer or you are not.

Remember every hard drive is going to fail at some point, everyone you know is going to die and eventually the universe will run out of energy. Along the way my Porsche may or may not have an IMS issue. No symptoms to warn us. Kind of like thermo nuclear war. Just one day it is all over.

The question is how worked up about these facts are you willing to get.

Any comments seeking middle ground suggesting that if a vehicle is near the end of its service life (F6I words not mine) it may not be a rush rush issue are met with Jake pounding his fists on the table suggesting that the reason not to do the retrofit is because he won't do it for you in order to protect his reputation and not because it may not make economic sense.

I just shake my head. Whatever.

[mikefocke]

you are putting words in his mouth.

He said he'd not do it because he has a reputation to protect and the probability of other possible failures could cloud the view of his one fix. Look how many misdiagnosed problems you see on the net forums and I, at least, think that a reasonable view from a business perspective.

Google him. Spend hours looking around. See how many people are dissatisfied with the services Jake has provided over the years. Compare it to other rebuilders I won't name. Some are all negatives in the first 5 links, but he isn't that I've seen.

There are people who believe in prevention and changing the oil every n number of miles and using a supposedly better oil than Porsche uses. And there are others who don't. And both sides can find examples to support their view.

When asked what I think and how I maintain mine, I tell people. It is my opinion based on all I have read, all I have experienced, and talks with some serious engineers. I don't condemn other viewpoints or approaches...or at least I try not to. One of my most frequent phrases is 'we each have a different tolerance for risk'. And I think for ambiguity and standards of proof.

One of the hardest decisions about any piece of machinery is the decision to prevent, maintain or discard...especially when you have no statistics to back your decision. How many times have I over-maintained a car? Too many to name. I have one sitting in my driveway right now. Do I fix the ABS system on a '94 Mazda? How about the oil leak? Car must be worth $500 but to replace it would cost thousands and so where to repair it and how much to risk?

But I'd rather have a guy who tells me straight up why he won't do the work or won't do the work the way I want it than to trust the yes man and get burned.

And it is his business and reputation...

[landrovered]

I am not putting words into anyones mouth.

I called Flat Six, is was told that my engine was at the end of its service life and that they do not recommend the proceedure at that point. I was told "you might be better off putting your money towards a new engine". ok fine I can accept that.

That is entirely different to me than being told that the reason they are not done is to protect the reputation of the firm as in jake's post

This is about tone, on the phone I got helpful information on the web I get hubris.

I am perfectly fine with a diminishing concept of return on the proceedure for high mileage motors.

No one has question the efficacy of the repair in this thread. It is about hype and the web based frenzy about imminent IMS failure.

[Jake Raby]

Owners of vehicles are concerned with whats best for their engine.. I am also concerned with that, but I must above all else provide security for the company I started at age 13.

The only person who can cover my ass is me and if that hurts some feelings or means that some cars can't be retrofitted then so be it... We could be like most everyone else and take your money, hoping and praying you don't have a problem and then not really caring if you do... Thats not the way this company operates. I am point blank and too honest for my own good in some cases, but we stay out of trouble while everyone knows where we stand at all times. I won't tell someone what they want to hear just to get into their wallet.

What developed the tick...tick.. mind set is the bearing Engineers that offered us reports on the bearing from an analytical standpoint stated the bearing had a service life measured in hours, not miles.. The clock on that service life is ticking with every minute the engine operates and thats just a fact.

Last week I caught a bearing WHILE it was failing, unknowingly until the bearing flange was pulled. That particular engine ironically was within TWO HOURS of the target service life that was calculated by the bearing Engineer who has been assisting us... We didn't even notice it until we were logging the ECU information for our database..

Its a fact that anything mechanical can fail at any time, people who don't work with mechanical things all day, everyday and do so also as their hobby just can't understand that. I lead a life of pushing things to the extreme mechanically so failure is fairly common place. Morticians are accustomed to dealing with dead people so it doesn't bother them too much.. Same thing goes with us, when parts scatter its to be expected and I've even been known to crack a smile while picking up the pieces in the dyno cell... But that engine made 150HP per cylinder and broke about every rule on earth just by firing up.

We've fielded THREE IMS bearing calls today and 9 this week so far. I've started recording the calls with those who want to share their stories.

[landrovered]

Too honest for your own good....are you telling your customers that you are recording their calls?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by landrovered

Too honest for your own good....are you telling your customers that you are recording their calls?

Absolutely.. I even ask permission and every one so far has had no problem with it...

As my post stated, some people want to share this story and for us it means that the same old broken record we hear time and time again and try to reiterate can be proven.

Above all else do what you feel is necessary to enjoy the car, be that an IMS upgrade or just not worrying about it. I am just happy that we have the procedures and components to support the IMS retrofit, this time last year that wasn't the case... There was no choice. Think about that.

BTW- On the phone personal service is much easier. The internet doesn't afford that kind of communication, unfortunately. Thats why so many internet flame wars happen with people who in person or on the phone get along just fine.

[Dragonwind]

Well I'm glad that I had me shop put the bearing in at 87k as Jake would have turned me down. He'll say I'm wrong but really don't believe 85k is anywhere near the end of my 2.5's life and with all the TLC it gets I hope to make it more than double or tripple that.

However with the power bug always gnawing at me it probably go through an upgrade at some point in it's life.
Chris

[Jake Raby]

Its not so much a matter of someone being turned down, because we have applied the IMSR to engines with over 85K. When that occurred there was some paperwork and understanding required all up front.

Some people that do not understand the engine or the IMS failure believe that when the bearing is retrofitted the engine is reincarnated and thats just not true... The IMSR addresses one mode of failure, one of the only ones that can be addressed with the engine together and in the car.

I should have made it more clear that we will still apply the IMSR to higher mileage engines, but conditions do apply. I did not make that very clear at all after I re-read my post after these responses.

[JMF]

I bought an '03 last year knowing all that was being reported about IMS failures. I did my research, learned about Jake's work, and decided that as soon as the CPO warranty is over next year I'll have him do the IMS upgrade. The clutch probably needs replacing anyway.

I'm not worried or scared that my car is going to blow up. I try to drive it like it was designed to be driven. I want to keep this beauty for a long time, and if a few grand buys some time and peace of mind, why not? The grins I get from driving this car are worth it.

I have never gotten the impression that Jake is any kind of snake oil salesman, and I'm surprised that he responds to the critics at all. But it makes for great reading ...

[Dragonwind]

Thanks for the clarification Jake. I do understand mechanics and never expect that this is a new life, but rather stopping something from killing would could be an engine that might run for a long time. I don't use the M word for oil and I've had a lot of other work done to it, including new radiators, RMS, water pump, thermostat, power steering pump and hoses, coil packs, plus regular maintenance items. I hope that between all that I can get a long life out of her.

Chris

[jcb986]

You either love the Boxster or hate it. I feel like that song when I'm breezing down the highway..."don't worry, be happy."