Sumitomo HTR Z III

[944boy]

I agree with Blue on this. I have a $1600 bike that has lasted many miles and many years, has been wonderful in every aspect. It won't win me any serious bike race, but that's not what I bought it for.

I have a 944 that I race competitively. Everything makes a difference. I can spend more on solid bushings than the car is worth. But that's what it takes to make a car competitive in some classes.

For the Boxster, I put a huge amounts of miles on the car and needed less expensive tires that would last a few miles with good rain performance. I didn't need the best of the best nor did I want to pay for it. But I didn't want a crappy tire, I've had plenty of those too. (Old Nittos NT-450?, Falken Ziex 512) I have been very happy with these tires and other people on this board have been too. I can't comment on flat spotting, the car rarely sits for more than 24 hours.

Ultimately I am not buying the tires for you, that is your decision. Almost any tire you can buy in the size you need will be round and made of rubber and work perfectly fine. You should match the tire with what you expect from it.

[eightsandaces]

I'm not castigating the choices of others, clearly everyone here appreciates their vehicles. All I'm saying is after reading volumes on fairly expensive upgrades in this forum I would think a tire purchase would certainly include a measurement of quality & performance. I agree with blue that highest price isn't always the best metric and diminishing returns and paying for names is a reality. My dad had one small problem with his sport pilots and Michelin was all over it! Having worked in the fortune 100 battlefield, I appreciate true customer service and product quality, not just lip service.

[ChefCarnivore]

The performance issue reminds me of equipment ads for skis, golf clubs, fishing gear , and sail boats. Namely, what's the use of paying more for performance equipment if you are not going to need it?

For many years skis were advertised as "racer" models when in reality most skiiers are recreational skiers and do not have the ability to get the performance out of the product because they are not physically capable and do not race. The same is true for the other categories mentioned above and for tires.

[Quickurt]

I came here looking for paying less than PS2's because, as I drive the car, usually with wifey in board I don't NEED PS2s.
I think Silver Bullet made the most sense a good while ago, to paraphrase, "If you'r enot doing track days or driving like you are but mainly use your car to cruise, why would you buy track quality, rediculously expensive PS2s?"
I want a set that will be safe when I need it, but will mainly not cost a dime a mile to use for cruising. Someone above also made the comment on the speeds needed to have fun with really sticky, high tech tires.
We switched to a required, much harder compound, Hoosier slick for Club Ford racing. Want to guess how much more fun they were to go 2 seconds a lap slower?

[mptoledo]

I started a thread and was giving an update as I broke them in. http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21546

Got mine at local tire shop (tinity tires, urbana ohio) for $700 intstalled.


My take after about 700 miles is they were a great choice.

cons: Noisey, I do here/feel the road more than my Mich pilot sports. Nothing the stereo won't compensate for.
Handling is different from my Mich's, as they seem to over steer a little more.

Pros:Price, They handle very well, not a lot of rain testing but have been in a few showers, they seemed fine. Breaking was great, hard corners take a little extra effort as these are sticky tires.


conclusion: Great tires for people on a budget. I don't think they are as good as the more expensive tires, but they are close enough!! (for me at least). I don't track, I use them as a daily driver and back country, road rage!!

[Quickurt]

Thanks MP. I assume you're in Toledo. I was born in Sidney and lived in Piqua and Lima, also, before we moved to Miami in 1960! My dad owned some property on the south side of Toledo. I still have cousins and Aunt's and Uncles in and around Cincy.
Do you get together with Gregdacats in Newport, KY?
I think I'll try a set of the Sumi's. I had a couple of sets of the HTZ's on a couple of Preludes, years back now, but loved them on them.

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

Thanks MP. I assume you're in Toledo. I was born in Sidney and lived in Piqua and Lima, also, before we moved to Miami in 1960! My dad owned some property on the south side of Toledo. I still have cousins and Aunt's and Uncles in and around Cincy.
Do you get together with Gregdacats in Newport, KY?
I think I'll try a set of the Sumi's. I had a couple of sets of the HTZ's on a couple of Preludes, years back now, but loved them on them.

actually I moved from toledo (cause it sucks!! and I can prove it ) to Urbana ohio, between columbus and dayton. I would say if you don't have the $1300 laying around then definately go with the Sumitomo's. I have no regrets, but I have no idea what tread life will be like, but for almost half the price, I think its a no brainer for us budget minded people.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

Someone above also made the comment on the speeds needed to have fun with really sticky, high tech tires.
We switched to a required, much harder compound, Hoosier slick for Club Ford racing. Want to guess how much more fun they were to go 2 seconds a lap slower?

I think I made my point pretty clear. If you care about lap times, lower cost tires probably aren't the right choice. If you like to feel a car's limits at a safe speed, lower adhesion brings out more personality.

[blue2000s]

Thanks for all the feedback folks. It definitely sounds like these tires aren't bad at all. I'm getting near the wear bars out back on my Contis. The car's season is over in a couple of months so I'll probably order a full set of these next spring.

[ridetheworld]

I just drove 800 miles from San Francisco to Tacoma, WA on a brand new set of HTR Z III. I hit a ton of rain on I-5 on the way home and the tires felt very safe and stable. I had zero hyrdo-planing issues until I hit some water that was about an inch deep. The car felt very stable and the tires provided great feedback in the rain. I would feel more confident on a rainy interstate on these over my 4runner with BFG A/T's any day of the week!

[DamageINC123]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

I came here looking for paying less than PS2's because, as I drive the car, usually with wifey in board I don't NEED PS2s.
I think Silver Bullet made the most sense a good while ago, to paraphrase, "If you'r enot doing track days or driving like you are but mainly use your car to cruise, why would you buy track quality, rediculously expensive PS2s?"
I want a set that will be safe when I need it, but will mainly not cost a dime a mile to use for cruising. Someone above also made the comment on the speeds needed to have fun with really sticky, high tech tires.
We switched to a required, much harder compound, Hoosier slick for Club Ford racing. Want to guess how much more fun they were to go 2 seconds a lap slower?

I have always ran Michelins on all my vehicles. I have PS2 on my car now and recently noticed when searching the websit a price drop. At the end of last year I was seeing around $288 a piece for 265/40/17 and now they are around $213.00.

Here is a test of ten tires - may help you decide.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the _michelin_ps2-comparison_tests/michelin_pilot_sport_ps2_page_2

[mikefocke]

for the one time in a tires life you have to react in an emergency mode. For that one time, the characteristics of a tire may save your life...or may not. May save your car, or not.

I've had tires cost me a Boxster and a VW. In the one case I was driving on UHPS tires and the road was cold and I just slid on top of the pavement instead of the rubber digging in to the micro indents in the pavement..not even a Boxster's brakes could save the car. In the other, the dealer that sold me the car switched the tires on me from good tread when I bought the car to almost bald when I picked the car up in the dark. Slid going around a curve when the fronts just didn't bite at all.

Go look at the tirerack comparisons and see the stopping distance and imagine that you have to stop to prevent your car hitting something or someone. Think how much faster that hit will be if you have 2 car lengths difference in stopping distance ... which can happen between 2 tires.

Whatever you do, drive cautiously the first 200-300 miles. And read the tirerack discussion of wear versus stopping distance and don't run the tires to the wear bars if you drive in the wet. I've seen someone killed doing that. Hit a puddle at the beginning of a bridge and started playing pinball off the concrete bridge abutments. I sailed through the same puddle at the same speed just fine.

[blue2000s]

These guys have really impressive prices, bested tirerack by about $45 shipped.

http://www.onlinetires.com/

[Quickurt]

As you can see by my siggy line, I bought the Sumis.
Only about 1k miles, so far, but am very happy with them. They are more sticky and more quiet than the PS2s they replaced, but the PS2s were GONE, so take the comment with a major grain of salt. They're better in the rain, but the PS2s were almost slicks!
I did extensive research on them and found two tests that included PS2s to Bridgestone RE050s in one and RE050s to HTR ZIII. The Bridgy number on the tests was almost identical (7.2 in one 7.35 in other). The PS2 number to the HTR number was about 5% different, with the PS2 higher (7.92 - 8.15 or there abouts).
The HTR's points loss was wet traction. Dry traction numbers were identical to PS2.
Now, considering I could buy a complete set of Sumis and two new pairs of rears for less than the PS2s, I sure don't see it as being a "cheap ass" as someone said above.
I also bought the OZ wheels at the same time, but I think the Sumis were about $725 mounted and balanced, plus freight.

[Gilles]

[QUOTE=Quickurt] The HTR's points loss was wet traction. Dry traction numbers were identical to PS2.
Now, considering I could buy a complete set of Sumis and two new pairs of rears for less than the PS2s, I sure don't see it as being a "cheap ass" as someone said above.

Did you considered running the PS2 on the front with the Sumis on the rear..?

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

These guys have really impressive prices, bested tirerack by about $45 shipped.

http://www.onlinetires.com/

Four days in shipping and the tires are sitting in the garage! I should have the car out of storage this week (50F tomorrow) so that I can get them mounted and try them out.

[smshirk]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

for the one time in a tires life you have to react in an emergency mode. For that one time, the characteristics of a tire may save your life...or may not. May save your car, or not.

I've had tires cost me a Boxster and a VW. In the one case I was driving on UHPS tires and the road was cold and I just slid on top of the pavement instead of the rubber digging in to the micro indents in the pavement..not even a Boxster's brakes could save the car. In the other, the dealer that sold me the car switched the tires on me from good tread when I bought the car to almost bald when I picked the car up in the dark. Slid going around a curve when the fronts just didn't bite at all.

Go look at the tirerack comparisons and see the stopping distance and imagine that you have to stop to prevent your car hitting something or someone. Think how much faster that hit will be if you have 2 car lengths difference in stopping distance ... which can happen between 2 tires.

Whatever you do, drive cautiously the first 200-300 miles. And read the tirerack discussion of wear versus stopping distance and don't run the tires to the wear bars if you drive in the wet. I've seen someone killed doing that. Hit a puddle at the beginning of a bridge and started playing pinball off the concrete bridge abutments. I sailed through the same puddle at the same speed just fine.

+1 I have experience with crummy tires in the rain. I lost it in a curve during a drizzling rain, went down an embankment and rolled over into a corn field. If I had had 2 or 3 more feet I would have stopped, but it went over in agonizing slow motion. Miraculously didn't get hurt, but totaled my 260Z. The tires were to the wear bars and I had been putting off new tires for a couple of months. A long time ago, but a lesson I've never forgotten! I always buy high end tires and replace them early. I have close to 10k on the Dunlop Star Specs on the Boxster now. They have plenty of tread left, but the rears are really noisy, so I'll put on new ones before I take a chance on getting wet.

[jcb986]

I put the Falken 912's on mine. Great grip wet or dry...awful in the snow from what I've read. So far, the are handling well. Not made for track, just pleasure driving with a little attitude.

[dallison]

i have about 5k on my htr II and they seem to do well. They do not like damp pavement at all.