Porsche Goes Electric

[Quickurt]

How about disposing of or recycling the harsh chemicals in these new batteries. I don't think we need another nuclear waste storage problem, as manufactured as that is.
My brother in law is a Miami fireman and he says they already have warnings about containing anything leaking out of a Prius or Insight if involved in an accident.
I can see it now, starring Jane Fonda, an almost impossible random accident involving a Prius and an Insight. Crashing aluminum, magneseum, steel and unobtainium battery chemicals. Blah-woooosh, The Japan Syndrome!

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

How about disposing of or recycling the harsh chemicals in these new batteries. I don't think we need another nuclear waste storage problem, as manufactured as that is.
My brother in law is a Miami fireman and he says they already have warnings about containing anything leaking out of a Prius or Insight if involved in an accident.
I can see it now, starring Jane Fonda, an almost impossible random accident involving a Prius and an Insight. Crashing aluminum, magneseum, steel and unobtainium battery chemicals. Blah-woooosh, The Japan Syndrome!

That is funny!

Godzilla in the form of a battery?

[AddictionRacing]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Let's make the best of a bad situation !!

We're in Iraq and will be for many more months, probably years !!

Gasoline prices are at an all-time high and crippling the economy and the Middle-Class !!

So, let's force the Iraqi's into an agreement whereby whatever we spend on keeping our troops in their country to maintain order (which range from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) estimate of $8 billion per mo. to an estimated $12 billion per mo. by economist Joseph Stiglitz), an equivalent amount of Iraqi Oil is given the US in exchange.

This Oil would go into the Nat'l. Reserves and be dispensed 50/50 with crude from the Oil Cos. at the refinery !! That way, we would cut the price of gasoline and actually get something for all the tax dollars pouring into Iraq !!

By far the best idea I've heard in years. (Being used to the VWVortex shenanigans, it's sure nice to read intelligent discussions on this site.)

[Perfectlap]

THere's a guy on CNBC saying that we WILL have $7 gas base on $150 oil within a year. Based on that his group is saying 10 million Americans will not be able to afford to cars. Say hello to more public transportation budget deficits and Detroit may close down for business...
He's saying we are 5-6 years away from Hybrid cars becoming available to the public in big numbers.

Also heard an economist from Barrons say that ANWR drilling, best case scenario, at full supply will reduce the per barrel cost of oil maybe, ONE DOLLAR.
And of course there's no obliging the oil companies to sell that oil to the lowest bidder (USA).

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

THere's a guy on CNBC saying that we WILL have $7 gas base on $150 oil within a year. Based on that his group is saying 10 million Americans will not be able to afford to cars. Say hello to more public transportation budget deficits and Detroit may close down for business...
He's saying we are 5-6 years away from Hybrid cars becoming available to the public in big numbers.

Also heard an economist from Barrons say that ANWR drilling, best case scenario, at full supply will reduce the per barrel cost of oil maybe, ONE DOLLAR.
And of course there's no obliging the oil companies to sell that oil to the lowest bidder (USA).

Those who oppose driling of any type are hanging their hat on the $1 figure. The number may be right or not.

The issue really is this: Will we be better off not developing all of our energy sources or not? I think the answer is obvious. Energy sources are largely substitutes for each other.

Lets do them all and see how it turns out!

[Perfectlap]

I agree for the most part but it sorta reminds me of the ethanol debate.

Some peopel warned that using too much farmland for bio fuels would side track our resources given that ethanol would barely make a dent in our energy needs.

The cost of drilling is almost like sending a man to the moon. Heck might even be more. If we're going to set about pumping more crude from our own backyard you have to have pretty darn good projection on what the return will be given the investment, well the oil company does at least. If those cost go overboard, as they usually do the need to sell that oil at high prices becomes almost mandatory.
Meanwhile a fraction of the price to drill (successfully) in one major site could have put 100,000 hybrid cars on the road, cars that maybe in the future would only need to be filled once a month instead of once a week.

I think technology is our comparative advantage. We can afford given our position to devote more of our resources toward developing FE cars than can our competitors in Asia and perhaps some parts of Europe. China's buying something like 20,000 cars a day while the price of Ford stock is about to fall below a five spot. Rather than dumping billions into Iraq and drilling we need to decide carefully how much of that we're NOT going to pump into "oil price-dependent industries". Otherwise its only a matter of time before GM is filing for bankruptcy while we're dreaming about 2018 crude in ANWAR that will be bought up by the extra 300 million drivers in India and China.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I agree for the most part but it sorta reminds me of the ethanol debate.

Some peopel warned that using too much farmland for bio fuels would side track our resources given that ethanol would barely make a dent in our energy needs.

The cost of drilling is almost like sending a man to the moon. Heck might even be more. If we're going to set about pumping more crude from our own backyard you have to have pretty darn good projection on what the return will be given the investment, well the oil company does at least. If those cost go overboard, as they usually do the need to sell that oil at high prices becomes almost mandatory.
Meanwhile a fraction of the price to drill (successfully) in one major site could have put 100,000 hybrid cars on the road, cars that maybe in the future would only need to be filled once a month instead of once a week.

I think technology is our comparative advantage. We can afford given our position to devote more of our resources toward developing FE cars than can our competitors in Asia and perhaps some parts of Europe. China's buying something like 20,000 cars a day while the price of Ford stock is about to fall below a five spot. Rather than dumping billions into Iraq and drilling we need to decide carefully how much of that we're NOT going to pump into "oil price-dependent industries". Otherwise its only a matter of time before GM is filing for bankruptcy while we're dreaming about 2018 crude in ANWAR that will be bought up by the extra 300 million drivers in India and China.

I thinik you are mixing things up. The cost of investing in ANWAR is the oil companies, not "ours." The fed govt would get income from the oil companies via leases and the risk of the future of oil from ANWAR is with the oil comp.

So, feds get cash, oil companies gets future returns if any. We get oil in the future via the markets, same as always, just more oil being pumped.

So far so good. We (being the US population) will do whatever seems to be in our best interest. There is no shortage of companies offering hybrids and more and better hybrids will come on line as demand grows, as it surely will as gas prices increase. Other forms of transportation will certainly come on line too.

So, I think you are thinking that the govt will "make investments" in energy when in fact, they don't need to. They simply need to GET OUT OF THE WAY of development, ie let the nuclear industry go, let the coal industry go, let the tech industry go. Oil from bugs, let it go!!!!!

To my mind, no one is looking for money, they are looking for a lack of interference.

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

To my mind, no one is looking for money, they are looking for a lack of interference.

There is the key to the whole thing. THe founders wrote that Constitution thingie to make sure the government stayed the hell out of what was none of it's business. Things like energy production and regulation. There is a very specific list of what the federal government is authorized to do and ANYTHING else was forbidden. Unfortunately, they forgot to give us a suitable vehicle for enforcing the Constitution over the government. Voting is too slow and did not take into consideration professional politicos or the people being dumb enough to elect lawyers. The 2nd Amendment is too drastic for everyday infringement.
Nothing personal against lawyers, but allowing lawyers to write the laws, debate the laws AND judge the laws or accountants to write the taxcode is fox running the henhouse, no matter how you look at it. I bet if the judges didn't come from the lawyer fraternity, things would be different.

[Perfectlap]

oh but it tis OUR money.....

The capital expenditures for new drilling are being spent by Big Oil and passed directly to you and I. Where do you think that mun-ey is coming from?
Their billions in profits? Heck we can even get these guys to sell us a FULL gallon of gas fair and square when the dang temp is above 60F like in Canada and Europe!!! (they must be making a KILLING with that nonsense at $5 a gallon).
Sure we will get the taxes and money from the leases but the govt is going to spend it to get more tails on the public transportation, the roads that need to be repaired with more mass commuters and pay for this trillion dollar Iraq mess, and a bunch of other things that are falling apart around us.
All corporate investments geared at future growth are payed for us the consumers. Mor drilling in ANWR or offshore will mean higher gas prices in the short term with a possibility of no benefit in the long term when Asian oil consumption is up to 10 barrels per head. We could be footing the bill to fuel the very economies we compete against!

As far as the govt. getting out of the way...This is 2008. Globalization is here and we're competing against emerging nations whose govts play an active role in making sure their economies are FULLY fueled. When gas prices go up Americans stay home. When gas prices go up in Asia they buy more. Even if those govts scale back fuel subsidies the sheer volume in the increase of demmand will still ensure govt participation in layering additional demmand onto the price action.
Asia is only consuming a mere two barrels per person per year. I mean seriously 30,000 cars a day between India and China! We're not selling 30K of anything. There's an economic war going on today and we're sitting around pickin our noses. Those govts are sitting on Trillions in cash reserves. They're going to use it to make sure economic growth fights off a world wide economic downturn as best as they can. If we are to have a chance its all hands on deck, including the Fed Govt.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

oh but it tis OUR money.....

The capital expenditures for new drilling are being spent by Big Oil and passed directly to you and I. Where do you think that mun-ey is coming from?
Their billions in profits? Heck we can even get these guys to sell us a FULL gallon of gas fair and square when the dang temp is above 60F like in Canada and Europe!!! (they must be making a KILLING with that nonsense at $5 a gallon).
Sure we will get the taxes and money from the leases but the govt is going to spend it to get more tails on the public transportation, the roads that need to be repaired with more mass commuters and pay for this trillion dollar Iraq mess, and a bunch of other things that are falling apart around us.
All corporate investments geared at future growth are payed for us the consumers. Mor drilling in ANWR or offshore will mean higher gas prices in the short term with a possibility of no benefit in the long term when Asian oil consumption is up to 10 barrels per head. We could be footing the bill to fuel the very economies we compete against!

As far as the govt. getting out of the way...This is 2008. Globalization is here and we're competing against emerging nations whose govts play an active role in making sure their economies are FULLY fueled. When gas prices go up Americans stay home. When gas prices go up in Asia they buy more. Even if those govts scale back fuel subsidies the sheer volume in the increase of demmand will still ensure govt participation in layering additional demmand onto the price action.
Asia is only consuming a mere two barrels per person per year. I mean seriously 30,000 cars a day between India and China! We're not selling 30K of anything. There's an economic war going on today and we're sitting around pickin our noses. Those govts are sitting on Trillions in cash reserves. They're going to use it to make sure economic growth fights off a world wide economic downturn as best as they can. If we are to have a chance its all hands on deck, including the Fed Govt.

The oil companies capital comes from three sources:

1-Sale of equity and debt
2-Past profits
3-Future profits.

No one is forced to buy gas from anyone. The same CAN"T be said for taxes.
If I park my car and ride the rails or my electric bike, I have a choice about gas. Not so much but some choice. Over time, more choices will be availble

Yes, the feds will piss away the money from the leases but they piss away everything they take from us, so nothing new there.

Good luck expecting our govt to get with the program. They never have, never will. People go homeless here in US and the feds send aid money all over the world, money that they don't have by the way. That is OUR money they are sending out of the country, money our children will have to repay.

So, having said all that, to me, markets still work better than any other govt solution. The US can open up the energy markets for exploration or they can simply cede this all to the rest of the world.

Of course, you can't have a wind farm near Senator Kennedy's summer home and oil wells where the Malbu barbies can see them. No oil from ANWAR and of course, the snall darter must be protected, so no coal digging in Montana.

What would you prefer? Energy sourced locally or from Iran?

Now, specific to hybrids and other good stuff, they will come anyway as the need is there. So too will new technologies. They are on the way and we will have many more options very very soon.

I am not worred about that, since it does not appear that the feds will get in the way of that.

But who knows?