Porsche Goes Electric

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

As much as the people are sick of people blaming the oil companies I'm sick of people blaming politicians. Who votes for these politicians? The secret council of the Water Buffalo club? Polticians do what the people want. If they don't they get voted out. People didn't care about hybrids, electric cars, and all the other alternatives, instead they jumped all over the big suv's because gas got cheap again. Tom Friedman advocated a $1 tax when gas was $1.85 to spur the industries like these guys with the electric Porsches. Not the approach I would have advocated but the people weren't hearing any hybrid car talk whe car loans were abundant. No more car loan money now and gas will be $6....nice.
As Americans we waste, waste, waste. If its not gasoline we waste food, something insane like 25% of all food bought makes its way into the trash. Before we blame Washington we need to take a long look at ourselves.

As for where to get electricity to power the electric cars. I believe if you build....ingenuity will provide (as long as there is money to be made). Creating new industries that provide cheap electrical power is the shot in the arm that this country needs after we allowed this govt to ship all of our manufacturing jobs to Asia. If enough people buy these cars there are enough clever blokes that will pour some big money into ramping up the delivery of cheap elctricity, hydrogen whatever just no more oil. Whether its Owens Corning making composites for wind mill blades producing insane amounts of power compared to 10 years ago, thin film solar panel technology driving down the costs in a hurry we need to be after these industries before the rest of the world once again beats us to the punch. Germany is already way ahead on wind and China is making big moves in Solar. Nuclear is kinda of a panacea, the wait time for the reactor domes is nearly 12 years and oh yeah the waste...

I don't condone waste but it is a part of life. Prices help drive waste out of a process. As prices increases, waste tends to diminish.

As for the govt, it is hard to not blame those morons. And, while we get to vote, we really don't get to change anything.

Think about it. Your Senator has a 6 year job with no performance review. The President, 4. It seems that you need MILLIONS of dollars to get elected, and who has that kind of money.

Face it, both parties are clearly only out to stay in power. that is the price of professional politicians.

As for me, I have only disdain for these turds as based on my entire life's experience of hearing their lies, they deserve it.

By the way, this is an equal opportunity bashing. No real difference between GOP and Dems. Obama and McCain would both sell their mother to get elected.

[Perfectlap]

well there will be a major house cleaning of govt this fall. Did you see today's consumer confidence report? Lowest numbers in 16 years or something.

I dunno I kind of see big changes in terms of personal consumption of food, fuel and credit. Three things that got us into this mess and so far behind Asia and Europe. This could be the begining of ths country becoming more "European"...getting thinner, driving smaller cars, etc.
This era of American excess where you order dinner and they bring you a 1000 calorie portion, bagels the size of a soccer ball, big gulps, Licoln Navigators the size of 1920's Packard, 50" plasma TV's in a small living room, its all done.

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

well there will be a major house cleaning of govt this fall. Did you see today's consumer confidence report? Lowest numbers in 16 years or something.

Where did consumer confidence tracking come from?

Isn't it a metric for the media to measure how much negative influence they are having, and then use that number to further run down consumer confidence?
Why is it only an issue during election cycles, when republicans are in office? I don't remember a word about it during the 2000 election cycle.

In fact, the economy was just rosy as could be, right up until the time the Goracle conceded. The next morning, the very next morning, ABC Morning news led off with these four words: "Trouble in the economy" Those four words led off a torrent of negative economic news that has not stopped yet, and will not stop until the nation elects another democrat to the Whitehouse.

Like so many, I worked hard to get the republicans elected, only to have them stab me in the back, so they deserve what they have coming. They deserve it, but we don't and we're the ones fixing to suffer.

Democrat pols are crooked lawyers, telling liberals what they want to hear to get their votes.
Republican pols are crooked lawyers, telling conservatives what they want to hear to get their votes.
After the election, they are just all crooked lawyers taking care of themselves, at our expense.

I'll climb down now.

[Perfectlap]

Today's Consumer Confidence findings are tracked by a private group in NY.
I'm assuming the credit markets look at these studies closely.

Here's an interesting piece on the electric cars, solars, etc.


Here's a company EEstor that's come up with a battery that can be charged in 5 minutes at a special charging station and will allow a car to be driven 300 miles or at home in using off peak rates at night for a few hours. People say had we started drilling 10 years ago we'd still have $3 gas. I keep thinking if we had put real money behind these hybrids and electrics 10 years ago we'd actually be exporting a ton of eco friendly cars to billions in Asia and India. That could have provided a ton of of middle class green collar jobs.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

well there will be a major house cleaning of govt this fall. Did you see today's consumer confidence report? Lowest numbers in 16 years or something.

I dunno I kind of see big changes in terms of personal consumption of food, fuel and credit. Three things that got us into this mess and so far behind Asia and Europe. This could be the begining of ths country becoming more "European"...getting thinner, driving smaller cars, etc.
This era of American excess where you order dinner and they bring you a 1000 calorie portion, bagels the size of a soccer ball, big gulps, Licoln Navigators the size of 1920's Packard, 50" plasma TV's in a small living room, its all done.

I guess I would differ with you on the "being behind Europe and Asia." IN what regard?

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Today's Consumer Confidence findings are tracked by a private group in NY.
I'm assuming the credit markets look at these studies closely.

Here's an interesting piece on the electric cars, solars, etc.


Here's a company EEstor that's come up with a battery that can be charged in 5 minutes at a special charging station and will allow a car to be driven 300 miles or at home in using off peak rates at night for a few hours. People say had we started drilling 10 years ago we'd still have $3 gas. I keep thinking if we had put real money behind these hybrids and electrics 10 years ago we'd actually be exporting a ton of eco friendly cars to billions in Asia and India. That could have provided a ton of of middle class green collar jobs.

The problem is always, Who is we?

The govt policy has been clear. Don't allow energy development of any kind domestically.

Predictably, we now are very vulnerable to the Mid East.

Plenty of blame to pass around.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

Where did consumer confidence tracking come from?

Isn't it a metric for the media to measure how much negative influence they are having, and then use that number to further run down consumer confidence?
Why is it only an issue during election cycles, when republicans are in office? I don't remember a word about it during the 2000 election cycle.

In fact, the economy was just rosy as could be, right up until the time the Goracle conceded. The next morning, the very next morning, ABC Morning news led off with these four words: "Trouble in the economy" Those four words led off a torrent of negative economic news that has not stopped yet, and will not stop until the nation elects another democrat to the Whitehouse.

Like so many, I worked hard to get the republicans elected, only to have them stab me in the back, so they deserve what they have coming. They deserve it, but we don't and we're the ones fixing to suffer.

Democrat pols are crooked lawyers, telling liberals what they want to hear to get their votes.
Republican pols are crooked lawyers, telling conservatives what they want to hear to get their votes.
After the election, they are just all crooked lawyers taking care of themselves, at our expense.

I'll climb down now.

Well said.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

The problem is always, Who is we?

The govt policy has been clear. Don't allow energy development of any kind domestically.

Predictably, we now are very vulnerable to the Mid East.

Plenty of blame to pass around.

Well seem to recall an energy bill that was shot down by the energy lobby back in December that would have requried a 15% committment to renewable energies by power companies. The 15% clause was removed and Bush went along with it.
Can't exactly say Congress wasn't at least trying to push renewables.

I mean its getting to be a joke. Status Quo defenders don't want the "We" to be private engergy companies and their profits, but neither do they want the govt. to kick in the money. Something's gotta give we can't just stand around looking at each other waiting for someone to step up to the plate. Flipping the country upside down and off of oil is going to require all hands on deck both govt and the most well profited private sectors. Otherwise its going to take 20 years.
We fought WWII by pulling govt and the private sector up by the boot straps.
In this current era we'd a been arguing until the Germans were at the statue of liberty on who was going to pay for it all.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Well seem to recall an energy bill that was shot down by the energy lobby back in December that would have requried a 15% committment to renewable energies by power companies. The 15% clause was removed and Bush went along with it.
Can't exactly say Congress wasn't at least trying to push renewables.

I mean its getting to be a joke. Status Quo defenders don't want the "We" to be private engergy companies and their profits, but neither do they want the govt. to kick in the money. Something's gotta give we can't just stand around looking at each other waiting for someone to step up to the plate. Flipping the country upside down and off of oil is going to require all hands on deck both govt and the most well profited private sectors. Otherwise its going to take 20 years.
We fought WWII by pulling govt and the private sector up by the boot straps.
In this current era we'd a been arguing until the Germans were at the statue of liberty on who was going to pay for it all.

There is plenty of private capital ready to explore for energy. I think Congress is showing you exacly why we are in the mess we are in right now.

Drill? Yes/No.

Next question

[Lil bastard]

Let's make the best of a bad situation !!

We're in Iraq and will be for many more months, probably years !!

Gasoline prices are at an all-time high and crippling the economy and the Middle-Class !!

So, let's force the Iraqi's into an agreement whereby whatever we spend on keeping our troops in their country to maintain order (which range from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) estimate of $8 billion per mo. to an estimated $12 billion per mo. by economist Joseph Stiglitz), an equivalent amount of Iraqi Oil is given the US in exchange.

This Oil would go into the Nat'l. Reserves and be dispensed 50/50 with crude from the Oil Cos. at the refinery !! That way, we would cut the price of gasoline and actually get something for all the tax dollars pouring into Iraq !!

[Quickurt]

I can't disagree with that LB.
The Iraqi government is sitting on over 70 billion in oil revenue and don't know what to do with it, while we're still paying all the bills for their defense and reconstruction.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

Let's make the best of a bad situation !!

We're in Iraq and will be for many more months, probably years !!

Gasoline prices are at an all-time high and crippling the economy and the Middle-Class !!

So, let's force the Iraqi's into an agreement whereby whatever we spend on keeping our troops in their country to maintain order (which range from the Congressional Research Service (CRS) estimate of $8 billion per mo. to an estimated $12 billion per mo. by economist Joseph Stiglitz), an equivalent amount of Iraqi Oil is given the US in exchange.

This Oil would go into the Nat'l. Reserves and be dispensed 50/50 with crude from the Oil Cos. at the refinery !! That way, we would cut the price of gasoline and actually get something for all the tax dollars pouring into Iraq !!

Oh but then the Euros won't like us even more! How will we hold up under such criticism?

Click here to see an EXCELLENT video about the planet.

[ultimate1]

Quickurt is right on about the crooked lawyers on both sides that are ruining this country. BruceLee is right on about the fact that these losers in Congress and the white house get to hang around without any performance review and then they get to collect ridiculous windfall pension benefits. I hope both McCain and Obama come to Florida for a town hall because I plan on going to it just to see if I can ask them some questions that will expose them both for what they are. Stupid highly privileged jackasses. Well Obama is a recently privileged jackass.

The funny thing is that whoever wins the election will be the next Jimmy Carter. The winner is going to have to tell the public that interest rates have to go up to boost our dollar so oil prices can come down. This will force more people into foreclosures and create an even more drastic drop in home prices. The winner is going to have to tell people that we are going to have to raise taxes so that we can pay for all the modernization of our infrastructure and the jobs that will come of it. This kind of reminds me of when Dinkins took over as Mayor of New York City. Mayor Koch ran the city into the ground and Dinkins got elected and everybody blamed Dinkins for not being able to fix the problems he inherited from Koch.

Let’s see what Washington has done in the past 30 years.

Reagan and his Administration created what is now know as Al Qaeda and gave Sadam Hussein banned chemical weapons that violated the Geneva Convention. Way to go Rappin Ronny Reagan!

Clinton and his administration did away with Glass-Steagal Act and opened the door for the banks to merge with one another to create an anti-competitive environment and also allow the banks to get into all forms of investments. The type of behavior that caused the run on the banks in the great crash of 1929. Way to go Bill! That brought us the dotcom bubble, the housing bubble and now the creidt and banking crisis. Let's not forget Nafta and the beginning of what became China trade.

Whether you like Dubya Bush or hate him. You got to admit that he is the smartest one of them all. He got everyone to rally behind his decision to go to war with Iraq. He killed two birds with one stone. He got rid of the WMD that his daddy and his administration gave to Saddam Hussein and he got to drive the price of oil up for his buddies to get rich in the same process. Now that is pure genius!

Now we get to vote for McCain or Obama. What a privilege!

Anyway on a positive note we should have built more nuclear plants during the past 30 years and that way we could focus more on Solar, Hydrogen and Wind today. I can’t wait to see how bad these jackasses are going to screw up next!

I got to turn my attention back to the Box and sorry for getting all righteous here!

[Brucelee]

Good stuff Ultimate.\

you are pretty much right on.

[vincesf]

With Tesla owners finally taking delivery of their electric sports cars, and the price of gas almost at $5.00 per gallon in the U.S., Porsche will need to look hard at plug in electric/hybrid technology within the next few years, not only as planned for the Cayenne, but I dare say on their 997 and 987 variants. The 987 is a natural for electric conversion, as it has more than enough space to accommodate an electric motor and battery packs. In fact, in the next 10 years owners of the 986/987 should seriously contemplate a changeover to electric rather than a $15,000 gas engine replacement. I on the otherhand will be happy to keep my gas guzzling '08 987 S, and take delivery of my all electric Aptera in Feb. '09 (see photo attached). The range on the Aptera is 120 miles, top speed 90 mph, 0-60 in 9.5 seconds, and recharges in 2 hours on a regular house plug. My friends, as strange as it looks, the electric car is just in its infancy, and represents the future of cars. Porsche will be relegated to a fun novelty to drive on weekends if and when gas hits $10.00 per gallon, and shall need to change much quicker to meet market demands in an energy challenged world.
vincesf

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by vincesf

With Tesla owners finally taking delivery of their electric sports cars, and the price of gas almost at $5.00 per gallon in the U.S., Porsche will need to look hard at plug in electric/hybrid technology within the next few years, not only as planned for the Cayenne, but I dare say on their 997 and 987 variants. The 987 is a natural for electric conversion, as it has more than enough space to accommodate an electric motor and battery packs. In fact, in the next 10 years owners of the 986/987 should seriously contemplate a changeover to electric rather than a $15,000 gas engine replacement. I on the otherhand will be happy to keep my gas guzzling '08 987 S, and take delivery of my all electric Aptera in Feb. '09 (see photo attached). The range on the Aptera is 120 miles, top speed 90 mph, 0-60 in 9.5 seconds, and recharges in 2 hours on a regular house plug. My friends, as strange as it looks, the electric car is just in its infancy, and represents the future of cars. Porsche will be relegated to a fun novelty to drive on weekends if and when gas hits $10.00 per gallon, and shall need to change much quicker to meet market demands in an energy challenged world.
vincesf

Not to burst your bubble but why do you assume that the cost of electricity will not move along with the price of general energy sources? I guess I am puzzled as to why electric power will be a big bargain. That is certainly not true for heating your home, for example, as electric is far more expensive than natural gas and oil.

Certainly, a hybrid CAN be more efficient than a straight fuel car but there are trade-offs. I would have to add the costs of electric power, battery replacement and the like.

To me, I can't see any mode of transportation being a big bargain in the future.

Just my take on it.

[rick3000]

Personally, I think electric cars are another bait and switch type tactic. They will keep saying in a few more years we'll have a good electric but for know buy a gas car, and they never deliver. I think diesels or diesel hybrids that get 65+ MPG are the best solution, but I have been wrong before. The biggest problem with electric cars most people don't consider is the $8k battery replacement every few years.

[vincesf]

Originally Posted by rick3000

Personally, I think electric cars are another bait and switch type tactic. The biggest problem with electric cars most people don't consider is the $8k battery replacement every few years.

Electric cars may not be the solution to solving the world's energy crisis, they certainly will help in its transition. In the next 20 years, we shall experience a transition away from the internal combustion engine that was invented in the 19th Century, to a much cleaner, more efficient engine to drive automobiles of the future.
vincesf

[Perfectlap]

The expensive battery problem has many solutions. Nissan/Renault are cooking up a line of electric cars where rather than having bespoke batteries for each type of car, we'll have interchangeable batteries which are handed off at a gas station and a full charged one is put in. Solar panels could charge the batteries during the day and cheaper overnight rates would be used to charge the drained batteries.
Well at least that's how I understood it.

Sounds almost toooo logical.