To 'S' or not to 'S'

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by Flyer

Seeing cars like Gary in BR and Randalls make me feel comfortable that a well maintained 986 will make it past 150k

Me thinks you spoke too soon. Seen my thread about stripped out caliper bolt heads?

I wonder what my car would look like today if I had owned it brand new and kept it for ten years. A LOT better than it is today, that's for sure!

BTW, mine had a new engine put in it at 80k, just before I bought it. No idea why it was replaced, but it was brand new.

PS - GET AN S.

[Sammy]

If I had the guts I would buy a high mileage, non-S, drop a 3.4 in it and then make the appropriate mods to the suspension and the brakes. The S seems to be an off-the-shelf happy medium of what I wish I could have and what I perceive the base as being (key word being "perceive").

As seen driving with Randall and NickCats, I don't think the difference is as big as I thought it would be. NickCats autocrosses quite a bit with me and he is only a few seconds behind me which I think is primarily the difference between my R compounds and his tires. Randall, and the other base models, held their own at last years Tail of the Dragon trip.

When I originally bought my car I was looking at a base model but fell in love with the white face gauges, six speed (worthless in my opinion) and the bright red calipers.

To sum it up if I can't do what I mention in my first sentence I would probably opt for the S simply due to my perception of having more power, awesome brakes, a few styling cues, and the fact that the S is on the rear trunk.

[PWebRPH]

Thought long and hard about it myself.... went with the S.... couldn't be happier.

[Jacques79]

I have never driven a non S Boxster but I have driven a base 987 Cayman and wasn't impressed with the engine mated to the 5 speed transmission. The acceleration felt very dull.

In contrast my 2000 Boxster S pins me in my seat in the first few gears. This is probably due to the bigger engine and more torque along with the 6 speed tranny that allows different gearing.

I am extremely satisfied with the acceleration of my 2000 Boxster S, and I have owned such cars as the Honda S2000, a 2001 BMW M Coupe (315HP) and a highly modified Subaru WRX.

The price difference in the used market between a clean S and non S isn't really big...what's 2000$ more over 4-5 years worth to you? IMHO the HP difference vs the difference in price is in your favor...

You'll kick yourself if you don't get the S!

I use my Boxster S in every day city driving and the extra low end torque really helps zip in and out of traffic, along with those spirited highway runs where the engine feels like it can pull forever!

[Back2DTM]

986 non S and S , of course get the S

987 non S and 986 S will be a diffterent story.

[Lucky]

While shopping for my Boxster, I drove as many as I could including 986, 986S, 987, & 987S. The two "S" models were great. The base model 987 was very close behind the 986S in terms of feel and performance.

There are two main reasons why I prefer the S models -- torque and the 6sp. The 6sp tranny shifts much nicer than the 5sp (in my opinion). The torque for the larger engines in the S models is very obvious and makes for a much more responsive throttle in typical driving.

Buy the S.

Best advice I can offer is to drive as many cars as you can. Even if they aren't ones you think you may buy. Use dealers for this, since they often have several different years, models, and equipment levels in stock. You'll quickly learn to tell what a Boxster should feel like. Then when you find the perfect one (in terms of color, equipment, etc.) you will be able to feel right away if the car is at top health (in terms of engine, tranny, suspension, shifting feel, etc.).

In my shopping, I found 30k mile cars that felt like crap and 60k cars that ran and rode much better. I ended up buying a 92k mile car that felt absolutely perfect (and had only 25k on a replacement engine).

[saaber]

Originally Posted by Lucky

While shopping for my Boxster, I drove as many as I could including 986, 986S, 987, & 987S. The two "S" models were great. The base model 987 was very close behind the 986S in terms of feel and performance.

There are two main reasons why I prefer the S models -- torque and the 6sp. The 6sp tranny shifts much nicer than the 5sp (in my opinion). The torque for the larger engines in the S models is very obvious and makes for a much more responsive throttle in typical driving.

Buy the S.

Best advice I can offer is to drive as many cars as you can. Even if they aren't ones you think you may buy. Use dealers for this, since they often have several different years, models, and equipment levels in stock. You'll quickly learn to tell what a Boxster should feel like. Then when you find the perfect one (in terms of color, equipment, etc.) you will be able to feel right away if the car is at top health (in terms of engine, tranny, suspension, shifting feel, etc.).

In my shopping, I found 30k mile cars that felt like crap and 60k cars that ran and rode much better. I ended up buying a 92k mile car that felt absolutely perfect (and had only 25k on a replacement engine).

Pcar - this is good advice on all points especially about the feel of the car. Don't forget the pre purchase inspection as others have probably already said.

[Perfectlap]

^funny thing is I have gotten into the habit of skipping 5th gear. Seems like I always need either 4th or 6th but rarely 5th.

[jderiansf]

Originally Posted by Back2DTM

986 non S and S , of course get the S

987 non S and 986 S will be a diffterent story.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's my story.

I looked for an earlier 986 S. I drove one, and liked it, but i felt the suspension a bit rough (it very well could have been the age of the 986). IIRC, it had 40k miles and was in decent condition.

Then I drove a 987 base. Acceleration, braking and handling were on par or better than the 986S, but the suspension was far mor compliant (w/ 17s). Then the dealer found me an 05 987 w/ 19s and the right set of options and I was hooked. The lower profile tires sharpened the steering response (but harshened the ride). Another plus was that the suspensions are the same with the 987 base and S.

I've put approx 5k miles on the car since May, and have loved every one of them. I used to think that I wouldn't be happy with anything but and "S", but I am wrong -- happily.

Jason

[pcar-yvr]

Loud and clear!!

The S owners on this board are either really opinionated or REALLY love their cars.

LOL ...... awesome!

Originally Posted by pcar-yvr

Loud and clear!!

The S owners on this board are either really opinionated or REALLY love their cars.

LOL ...... awesome!

Yup and just like when I owned my 944, the big boys want the rest of us to de badge our no go show boats.

[vincesf]

Yes, S owner must really like their cars, but quite frankly I have driven non-S model Boxsters and thought they are great as well. The handling and balance of the car is truly exceptional. I would take a regular Boxster over any Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, BMW Z4, Mercedes 350 SLK, and Nissan 350Z. The S is an added bonus, provided it fits your budget.
vincesf

[trube78]

Last year (late-January/early Feb) I went on the hunt for a replacement for my 01 Guards Red non-S. I initially started out looking for an 04 S ideally the special edition model. I found both a special edition S and a non special edition S at the same dealer and travelled the 2 hours for some shopping. While there I spotted a new 06 non S nicely equipped with full warranty less than 200mi on the clock and the price was less than the 04 S and 04 special edition S. CPO was already done so no bargaining there. Dealer wanted/needed to move the 06 so I got a great deal.

What did I gain?
1. Full Warranty.
2. 987 Improvements, interior, trunks, etc.
3. New tires/brakes/clutch/RMS/top/etc.
4. Better gas mileage.

What did I lose?
1. 6 speed.
2. about 15 - 25 Hp
3. 30 ft-lbs
4. dings, chips, scratches from the PO.
5. 10-25K of potential PO abuse.
6. Crappy replacement tires.

I can sing the pluses and minuses of each of these gains and losses. It will depend on what you plan on spending and getting a 986 S is probably a better bet than a 986 (although I loved my 01). An 05 987 vs. an 02/03 986 S may be a whole different story. Drive em all; research on porscheusa, edmunds, kellys; then make the right choice for you.

Yes I would love a 987 S but it is hard to find one that is appropriately equipped (I do not like too many gadgets that are overpriced and drive up the cost) without ordering one which usually precludes a great deal. But again it would take a really nice 04 986 S special edition to make me think twice about my decision.

Final note: 05 and 06 S's are not showing up used too much yet. But .... a large number of Boxster leave their first owner at the 2.5-4 year point (fear of no warranty, kids, 3-year lease, who knows?) For 05/06 987's, we are there so expect more to become available start showing up on the lot.

Hope this helps.
ATB,
Tom

PS My wife still drives a 2002 -- 986 non-S she wants a Cayman S but I don't want to finance a new police building.

[larryshomework]

My .02

I went through the same decision dilemma. For me, I wanted the power/suspension of the S but preferred the styling of the base (black gauges, single exhaust tip, black vs. silver trim pieces).

In the end, I found a low mileage garage queen base (02/Seal Gray/Black/sport pkg) at a good price and went for it.

I love the car but do wish it had more power below 3-3.5k rpms. Above that, the power is adequate. Otherwise, the car is a blast.

I can't see trading it for an S since I know I have a good one.

However, I'm thinking about moving to the Cayman (I have another convertible already). Unfortunately, I'm back to the same decision - base or S. I really can't afford the S now so I'm wondering if a base 987 Cayman will give me close to a 986 S feel. Crap - it never ends

[mn box s]

what really matters is the 6 speed and the brakes. Figure how much a six speed swap would be then the s-brakes and that alone will make you decide what way to go not to mention the 3.2 over 2.7. as said before no offense but I wouldnt wast my time with the non, but the ones I have driven were nice.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by mn box s

what really matters is the 6 speed and the brakes. Figure how much a six speed swap would be then the s-brakes and that alone will make you decide what way to go not to mention the 3.2 over 2.7. as said before no offense but I wouldnt wast my time with the non, but the ones I have driven were nice.

mn box s is probably right,

A base 986 Boxster is just a slow worthless POS and a total waste of time.

But wait! Before we jump to conclusions perhaps we should compare recent run times from some of best drivers in the country. Compare the best Base Boxsters with the best Boxster S, Cayman S, GT3, and TT's. The results may surprise you: http://www.pcasdr.org/parade/results/ParadeAX.htm

At speeds over 120mph the more powerful cars have a decided advantage. At real world speeds (less than 100mph) the Base Boxster is hard to beat.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by mn box s

what really matters is the 6 speed and the brakes. Figure how much a six speed swap would be then the s-brakes and that alone will make you decide what way to go not to mention the 3.2 over 2.7. as said before no offense but I wouldnt wast my time with the non, but the ones I have driven were nice.

I find my 6-speed to be one gear too many. It's a marketing upgrade more than a performance one. You're not missing anything there.

On the brakes, they are fantastic, but from what I've seen of the 2.5/2.7L brakes, they're great too.

I actually like to push my sports cars and the more power, the more restrained you have to be with your driving. I find the S to be a constant exercise in constantly holding back. I can't imagine what the guys driving Vipers must go through. For day to day, the non-S is probably more rewarding.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by Topless

But wait! Before we jump to conclusions perhaps we should compare recent run times from some of best drivers in the country. Compare the best Base Boxsters with the best Boxster S, Cayman S, GT3, and TT's. The results may surprise you: http://www.pcasdr.org/parade/results/ParadeAX.htm

At speeds over 120mph the more powerful cars have a decided advantage. At real world speeds (less than 100mph) the Base Boxster is hard to beat.

In an AX, the base won't give much away at all. However, if you look at the really fast times for "base" Boxsters in that list, they are in the Modified class. Meaning, better brakes, upgraded suspension, more horsepower. The base is a popular car in AX because it has such a great chassis, and can be bought cheaper than an S, leaving more money for mods.

Put an unmodified base and S on a road course, and you'll see a greater advantage for the S. It won't be night and day, but it will be faster. It'll also be carrying more speed at the end of the straights, so it will get you in over your head a little quicker, demanding a bit more skill to drive.

IMO, the S is more pleasurable to drive in normal daily traffic mode because of the increased torque. But that's not where either one really shines though, is it?

They are both great cars. Enjoy what you've got, or whatever you get.

[racer_d]

For daily street driving, simply get "the best one you can afford" and not get hung up on the "S/NonS" side of things.

Over the years, I have learned that DRIVER skill is way more important than a few HP or brake sizes. I have happily passed 911 drivers with my 100hp 914 at the track. I have happily passed 300hp 911s with my 200hp 911 and yes, I have happilly passed Boxster Ss with my base Boxster.

So.. buy the best Boxster you can afford to. If you have specific goals that would be rewarded by having more gears, bigger brakes (not necesarily better, just bigger), a 3rd radiator and a few more hp, then go for the S!

That performance grid is sweet vindication, big LOL to the post that said the 2.5 lacked passing & merge ability. My first car was a 1.1 Opel Kadette, a sewing machine motor would have propelled it at a greater velocity. After reading this months Excelllence, I just hope my 2.5 sleeved, low milage motor doesn't blow up as apparently many others have...So far it runs like a clock, never had a RMS leak either...



http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee32/firesphotons2/?action=view&current=a_kadett_b_k.jpg