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Old 08-01-2007, 07:40 AM   #1
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HID question

im trying to decide about the numbers here.
6000k or anything else? anyone have any insight or tips?
thx
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:44 AM   #2
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the temperature ratings refer to the color of the bulb.
4500k is white and pretty much closest to the stock litronics.
6000k is a little bluer and IMO looks like the audi/vw lights. although some say that all manufacturers use 4500k.
higher numbers start getting really blue or purple. 10000k are rediculous IMO and would really stand out. so with that said, go with 4500k or 6000k. ideally look at 2 side by side at night so you can see what they look like.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:57 AM   #3
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DJ, my tip would be not to try and retrofit your lamp assembly with HID's. They throw off a lot of glare, are illegal in some places, and not nearly as nice as the real thing (litronics).

Plus, the bulbs sold as HID that are a direct swap for your factory lamps aren't really HID, which require additional electronics to get them to fire up.
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:27 AM   #4
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Ok I just had aftermarket HID kit installed with a ballast and electonic box for each light installed. Its a true HID and you can get them on ebay for less than $200, it is so much brighter than stock bulbs you will wonder how you EVER EVER lived without them. Trust me its the best $200 you will EVER spend on your Porsche. Not to mention it doesnt look like you have 1970 VW lights on your porsche anymore.

I would not recommend anything below 8k and for sure not below 6k. Anything 6k or below will probably be just white and won't look HID at all. But it will depend on your brand. I suggest you get the exact same brand I got if you want to know exactly what the 10k color will look like (see below). 8-10k is what every audi, cadilliac, bmw, ferrari on the road is running when it comes to color and brightness, anything below that will just like white. You need to view the video link on the bottom of this thread to see what my 10k lights look like, theyre very close to all teh HID luxury cars on the road. I would say that the stock porsche litronics are also 8-10k you can see below by comparison pics. If you compare the porsche 911 I had a few years ago with litronics to the boxster pic with aftermarket HIDs that are 10K in color they are almost exactly the same.

I posted this awhile ago here but I'll copy it for you.

Ok just installed the KLIGHT HID Xenon kit tonight. Its amazing. Very easy to install. Takes about 2-3 hours just to take your time and make sure you do everything right etc, especially if you've never taken out the headlights. Just as good as my lamborghini lights.


These 10k's that I bought have no purple or violet in them at all except for a few seconds while they're warming up. Now maybe other brands of lights do have their 10k bulbs have purple in them, but these do not. On the contrary my lamborghini lights pictured below are very purple and a little bit brighter but I'm sure the lamborghini lights are like $10 grand or something. And these lights are MANY times brighter than the stock bulbs.

Also even though the lights I got for the Porsche arnt purple at all, the factory Lamborghini lights are purple, so are some Audi's and BMWs and this is definately not "ricer" like some have said. I would say the stock Lamborghini lights are closer to 12000K purple and they are BRIGHTER than the HID lights just put in the Porsche even though a higher number. So the whole thing about sacrificing saftey is untrue when the Lambo purple looking lights are brighter and light up more of the road. I stood right next to each of them side by side tonight and compared.

For $200 this is the best thing you can buy and much cheaper than $1200-$1400 for porsche's HID litronics. I would bet that if I asked 10 regular people on the street they would all think these lights are straight from the factory at porsche.

IMO the stock porsche bulbs are a joke, if you don't have the litronics from the factory, something has to be done. The stock bulbs look like bulbs from a 1970 volvo...

I'll try to get around to posting a DIY guide this week. Tommorrow we're installing the heated seats I'll let you know how that goes!







Also here are a few pics from the ebay auction which I must say are very accurate.


10000K lights

Also a picture of my Porsche 911 from years ago with litronics:


Also here is a video of the lights (3mb) , they start off a richer darker color then as they warm up after a few seconds they go into the nice blue color. This video gives the most accurate representation of the color especially near the end of the video as the color changes for the first 10 seconds as the lights warm up - http://www.pteam.net/porschelights.wmv (right click open in a new window)

Hope this post / guide / comparison tests between a few different vehicles and bulb colors helps some of you guys out. I really urge you to AT LEAST get replacement bulbs for your Porsche for $30-$50 as this would at least double the output of the stock Porsche bulbs, and also not look horribly ugly but if you can do the whole HID kit this a great upgrade to the look and safety of your car for a small amount of money!
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:43 AM   #5
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One thing to remember is that the aftermarket (non-HID) bulbs that give a much whiter and brighter light (such as Silverstars) don't last nearly as long as standard Porsche bulbs. If you replace yours with these, you'll be replacing them frequently.

I had silverstars in my Lexus and they didn't last a year.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:26 PM   #6
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This is a subject in which I disagree with Pteam.

Don't go over 6k. Keep it legal. The lower/whiter temps/colors have more throw and spill. Anything between 4300 & 6000 will
look like Litronics, as that is the range of your higher end cars (manufacturers produce street legal vehicles -they do not come
close to 8-10k). A lot of people think the higher the number the better. That is not true when relating useable/visible light.

Also, the following image is fake.

This is the same image with saturation & hue levels adjusted.

And if any one wants to debate what I have posted, feel free to do so. But please first research it in a capacity relating to
Optics -not from eBay and sites that sell xenon kits or observations of seeing cars on the road.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:38 PM   #7
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OEM Litronic bulbs are rated at 4300 I believe. Just buy a HID kit that runs at 4.3k - 5k and it will look good. Check out renntech.org and rennlist.com, a lot of members have done it to their Boxster with good results.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10247

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/showthread.php?t=11188

Anyone installed a HID kit?

Those should get you on the right track. Good Luck!
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:01 PM   #8
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thx for the posts guys.
i will be going with 6000k one.
i will post pics once everything gets put on and installed, and maybe even do a DIY kinda deal with some pics (if i can learn how to take pics hehe)
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:14 AM   #9
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Jeph,

Compare these two pics:



The middle is my boxster with aftermarket 10k lights, the right pic is a 911 with litronics, your telling me the color isnt almost the same?

Also look at the boxster lights compared to my lambo, pretty close to factory HID eh? The lambo's are actually a little more purple which is why I say theyre around 12K, not anywhere near 4-6k.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:30 AM   #10
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from what i researched, anything over 6k is for looks and not gaining, but loosing light.
"normal" look is 4000-5000 range. 3000 is yellow, 4000 (or just above) is probably maximum white light output, 5000 may look a little cleaner without a significant drop in light output, 6000 will be noticeable bluish, and start to reduce the amount of light you'll see. As for the 8000+ range, I'm not sure its a true number anyway, but its more if you just want something really blue/purplish, and there will be a significant reduction in how much white light you'll see.

although, i would love to have 3000 as well

BTW, pteam, did you notice that your passenger side flickers and then turns on, before the other one even has any lights?
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:34 AM   #11
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When you guys go out tonight. Look at all the HID factory lights of all the other cars. You will notice Audi, BMW, Cadillac, and anybody elses you see almost all have a bit of purple if not alot of purple (notice the purple in the factory HID lambo lights above) and are very blue. None of these HIDs are anywhere close to white.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteam
When you guys go out tonight. Look at all the HID factory lights of all the other cars. You will notice Audi, BMW, Cadillac, and anybody elses you see almost all have a bit of purple if not alot of purple (notice the purple in the factory HID lambo lights above) and are very blue. None of these HIDs are anywhere close to white.
None of the companies you quoted here use the temperatures you are discussing. perhaps the manufacturer/vendor you bought from is giving you higher temperature ratings to increase sales?



# Anything over 5750 K and human vision and depth perception is significantly reduced
# Anything over 6000 K and the actual lighting output/power reduces exponentially
# Many companies claim to offer 8000- 12000 K Bulbs ...if this were true the headlight would shine DARK BLUE TO EVEN DARKER PURPLE !!


i won't argue with your lights, your pictures look great. i'm just wondering if your temperature scales are off because of some bad/false advertising.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humara
None of the companies you quoted here use the temperatures you are discussing. perhaps the manufacturer/vendor you bought from is giving you higher temperature ratings to increase sales?



# Anything over 5750 K and human vision and depth perception is significantly reduced
# Anything over 6000 K and the actual lighting output/power reduces exponentially
# Many companies claim to offer 8000- 12000 K Bulbs ...if this were true the headlight would shine DARK BLUE TO EVEN DARKER PURPLE !!


i won't argue with your lights, your pictures look great. i'm just wondering if your temperature scales are off because of some bad/false advertising.
Humara,

On that you could be correct. I dont know the actual scale. I only go by that they told me my lights are 10k , which is why I said in my above posts that any different brand could be totally different.

Also generally most people have said that 10k-12ks are purple. Well my 10k bulbs for my boxster are not purple at all but my lambo lights are purple and several HID companys I see on the road are purple, especially Audis. Purple means higher in temperature.

I also find it hard to belive that lamborghini and Audi, BMW are producing lights that are losing light output because they are purple. If that was the case I dont think they would make the temp that high, but almost every HID light I see at night has some purple in it. As I have stated before my purple lamborghini lights are a little bit (not much) brighter than my non purple HID Porsche lights.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteam
Humara,

On that you could be correct. I dont know the actual scale. I only go by that they told me my lights are 10k , which is why I said in my above posts that any different brand could be totally different.

Also generally most people have said that 10k-12ks are purple. Well my 10k bulbs for my boxster are not purple at all but my lambo lights are purple and several HID companys I see on the road are purple, especially Audis. Purple means higher in temperature.

I also find it hard to belive that lamborghini and Audi, BMW are producing lights that are losing light output because they are purple. If that was the case I dont think they would make the temp that high, but almost every HID light I see at night has some purple in it. As I have stated before my purple lamborghini lights are a little bit (not much) brighter than my non purple HID Porsche lights.
audi, bmw etc are not producing 10000k lights. the color you see is from the projector lenses. and you answered your own question. 10k-12k are purple. your 10k are not purple. using simple logic, we can conclude that your bulbs are not 10k.
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:33 PM   #15
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Cars on the road appear to have blue lights when compared to all the other halogens out there. Halogens are actually
yellowish, and that yellow makes xenons appear blue. I assure you, they're quite close to white.

And it's the projectors that produce a tinge of a violet color, and that's usually on the edges of the beam pattern
(like curved/angled glass create a prism).

It's hard to tell from a digital picture real life results. And when it comes to light and cameras, there are a lot of
factors to consider (white balancing, color correction, position/angle, etc.)
Side note, did you know digital cameras can pick up light the human eye can't see? Look at your digital camera's screen while aiming
your TV remote at it (while pressing a button).


I will say this, the old Porsches did seem to have a greenish tint to me. Those were among the first xenons out there.

I find it funny that many of the vendors show what the lights look like head on. What should matter is how it illuminates
from within the car.
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humara
audi, bmw etc are not producing 10000k lights. the color you see is from the projector lenses. and you answered your own question. 10k-12k are purple. your 10k are not purple. using simple logic, we can conclude that your bulbs are not 10k.
Well you could be correct. Alot of people say that 12k and up are purple, and 10k are deep blue.

So what color / temp would you say the lambo lights are from the above picture? Note that the picture looks exactly how they look at night, its not distorted from the camera.
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:58 PM   #17
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The name's BIV...

Roy G. Biv



Remember, the edges of the beam/pattern could have the prism effect... Coupled with the fact that the angle of
projection on the Lambo is so tight (due to how low the headlights are positioned), it looks like it has more violet
than what actually spills out on the road.

Did that make any sense?
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeph
Roy G. Biv



Remember, the edges of the beam/pattern could have the prism effect... Coupled with the fact that the angle of
projection on the Lambo is so tight (due to how low the headlights are positioned), it looks like it has more violet
than what actually spills out on the road.

Did that make any sense?
Yea I gotcha. But saying that the edges "could" have the prism effect is purely a guess.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:13 PM   #19
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If you want the most light output, go with 4300K. ALL factory HIDs are 4300K. 6000K is used on the Le Mans cars, but at a higher wattage than the 35W capsules we get for the street. The difference between 4300K and 6000K is the mixture of the gases inside the capsule that insulate the arc. 6000K capsules produce a bit less light than 4300K will. Anything over 6000K is created by coating the capsule blue and thus significantly reduces the light output. I have replaced a pair of capsules in a BMW with 6000k when one burned out, and did enjoy the result.

Now, for the debate over putting aftermarket HIDs into conventional, halogen housings- not a good idea. You can get away with it in a projector type assembly, as you have a focused lens controlling where the light goes, but in a reflector type housing (which the halogen Porsche assemblies are) its a horrible idea. All those aftermarket companies do is take a standard D2S or D2R HID capsule, and mold it into a halogen bulb base so you can stick it into your assembly. The problem is that the source of the light output is different from a bulb to an HID capsule (generally much more forward in the case of the HID capsule, which is not what the reflector was designed for), and you wind up with horrible amounts of spill and an often very incorrect beam pattern. This is not only less than ideal to drive with but, much more importantly, is downright dangerous to oncoming cars as the result can be extremely blinding, and is illegal for the reasons I just outlined.

If you want HIDs, get factory Litronics.

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Old 08-09-2007, 08:00 AM   #20
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i think that the biggest problem people have with factory HIDs is the price, so they say forget it and get the next best thing, which is these kits. and from what ive seen, they are not that dangerous to oncoming traffic at all, although some CAN be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwm750
If you want the most light output, go with 4300K. ALL factory HIDs are 4300K. 6000K is used on the Le Mans cars, but at a higher wattage than the 35W capsules we get for the street. The difference between 4300K and 6000K is the mixture of the gases inside the capsule that insulate the arc. 6000K capsules produce a bit less light than 4300K will. Anything over 6000K is created by coating the capsule blue and thus significantly reduces the light output. I have replaced a pair of capsules in a BMW with 6000k when one burned out, and did enjoy the result.

Now, for the debate over putting aftermarket HIDs into conventional, halogen housings- not a good idea. You can get away with it in a projector type assembly, as you have a focused lens controlling where the light goes, but in a reflector type housing (which the halogen Porsche assemblies are) its a horrible idea. All those aftermarket companies do is take a standard D2S or D2R HID capsule, and mold it into a halogen bulb base so you can stick it into your assembly. The problem is that the source of the light output is different from a bulb to an HID capsule (generally much more forward in the case of the HID capsule, which is not what the reflector was designed for), and you wind up with horrible amounts of spill and an often very incorrect beam pattern. This is not only less than ideal to drive with but, much more importantly, is downright dangerous to oncoming cars as the result can be extremely blinding, and is illegal for the reasons I just outlined.

If you want HIDs, get factory Litronics.

Patrick
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