Speeding Ticket - The Fight Begins

[mtch]

Originally Posted by 986speedster

I love it when the police give you a ticket, they are jerkoffs!!! Even when you admit you were speeding. But hey, they are just wasting your time, until you crash, and kill someone, or a motorcycle rider pulls out... or maybe...they were busy rescuing people, like 9/11.... arresting some innocent murderer...etc. So many liberals have so many opinions, but do nothing to help others except B$tch and complain about everything..boohoo!!! Pay the ticket and go change your maxipad!!

I think the issue here is "Due Process", something every patriotic American, left and (especially) right leaning, should hold in high esteem and demand from our justice system. Having committed or even confessed to ( among friends) an offense is not enough to be punished. Confronting our accusers (even the state or LE) and demanding a burden of proof be legitimately met is one way that we as citizens most effectively exercise our freedoms. Remember that unexercised freedoms are the first ones taken. ( or something like that)

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by mtch

I think the issue here is "Due Process", something every patriotic American, left and (especially) right leaning, should hold in high esteem and demand from our justice system. Having committed or even confessed to ( among friends) an offense is not enough to be punished. Confronting our accusers (even the state or LE) and demanding a burden of proof be legitimately met is one way that we as citizens most effectively exercise our freedoms. Remember that unexercised freedoms are the first ones taken. ( or something like that)

That is all very nice.

However, the man knows he commited the crime and is trying to worm out of paying.

Lets call a spade a spade. This is not a constitutional law issue nor is the constitution being threatened.

Sometimes, it is just cool to fess up, suck it up and move on, like a man.

If you can't do the time ...................

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

That is all very nice.

However, the man knows he commited the crime and is trying to worm out of paying.

Lets call a spade a spade. This is not a constitutional law issue nor is the constitution being threatened.

Sometimes, it is just cool to fess up, suck it up and move on, like a man.

If you can't do the time ...................

Hi,

I agree, no freedoms are at stake here. The Lister was not restricted from exceeding the Speed Limit, he was free to do so, but, under penalty of Law which is what's happening now.

No one likes Speeding Tickets, which has been stated. And I don't even fault someone for trying to fight it because of the lingering effects of increased Insurance costs, etc.

But, there's a limit to how far one should go . Overtaxing the system, which infringes on all of us who weren't pinched, isn't, IMHO, the way to go - keep the Nukes in their Silos for something bigger than a Speeding Citation.

Go ahead, fight it, that's your right, though in this instance I won't be surprised to see that you haven't altered the outcome. But, you did it, so quit whining about it and trying to gain sympathy from the Board...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Rodger]

Innocent until proven guilty....

I was bringing my Boxster through southern Utah last October and had a cop flash his lights at me, despite the fact I was doing 6-under the limit on a beautifully clear day. Some cops just assume because it's a Porsche that you must be speeding.

The burden of proof is on them, though....if neither the conditions of the roads or the circumstances involved allowed them to get an accurate radar reading, then they've got nothing. If they paced you while you were doing the speed limit, I see no fault there either.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Schnell!

Innocent until proven guilty....

I was bringing my Boxster through southern Utah last October and had a cop flash his lights at me, despite the fact I was doing 6-under the limit on a beautifully clear day. Some cops just assume because it's a Porsche that you must be speeding.

The burden of proof is on them, though....if neither the conditions of the roads or the circumstances involved allowed them to get an accurate radar reading, then they've got nothing. If they paced you while you were doing the speed limit, I see no fault there either.

The guy knows he was speeding. This does not seem to be in doubt. Fault is not in dispute here as far as I can see.

[Adam]

I guess SD987 is in the wrong place if he was looking for a sympathetic shoulder to cry on.

[SD987]

Adam, that made about as much sense as your previous 1,839 posts...I wasn't the one who got the ticket or was looking for sympathy.

I swear, if half the forum learned how to read as well as they type we could do great things.

And if you're still traumatized about me stereotyping your dad as a gold-chain wearing wife-beater in that other thread, then I apologize. Give it some time, you'll get over it.

Grizz, no problem, we're good.

[Brucelee]

I AM going to stop wearing those gold chains, I swear I am.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SD987

Adam, that made about as much sense as your previous 1,839 posts...I wasn't the one who got the ticket or was looking for sympathy.

I swear, if half the forum learned how to read as well as they type we could do great things.

And if you're still traumatized about me stereotyping your dad as a gold-chain wearing wife-beater in that other thread, then I apologize. Give it some time, you'll get over it.

Grizz, no problem, we're good.

Oops, I guess that's what happens when you drink mass quanities of beer on St. Pattys day, lol. No hard feelings we're cool. For some reason I thought you were the original lister....guess it wouldn't hurt to check next time

[djomlas]

i say you print this thread out and bring it to the judge, youll be fine

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by dbth

Have to disagree again on this strategy.
What difference does it make that the driver knew he was speeding , the onus is on the government to prove it.
Your constitutional rights allow you to defend yourself and the burden of proof is on the prosecutor.If you or your counsel don't think they can meet the burden of proof , dont give in.
If pleading guilty and paying the fine is in YOUR OWN BEST INTEREST (financially and/or emotionally), go ahead.

Otherwise , you are innocent until they can prove you guilty.

It amazes me that those who are so vehement about the 2nd amendment , will reliquish the 5 & 6 amendment so quickly.

Never give up your rights.

I agree that the onus is on the Government to prove its case, but remember that whether done in writing or in person on the stand, David will swear under penalty of perjury, to tell the truth about the incident. Several posts in this thread have complained that law enforcement doesn't play fairly in its highway enforcement or during the adjudication process. Somehow, however, we think it's O.K. for David to not play by the rules. David has already told us that he was speeding. We know that to be the truth because he told us it was. In the 986 forum's version of court, the Highway Patrol must come to court, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and accused gets to lie his ass off? Then the onus is on the Government to prove its case? Is that how it works? Apparently I must have slept through some of my classes.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I agree that the onus is on the Government to prove its case, but remember that whether done in writing or in person on the stand, David will swear under penalty of perjury, to tell the truth about the incident. Several posts in this thread have complained that law enforcement doesn't play fairly in its highway enforcement or during the adjudication process. Somehow, however, we think it's O.K. for David to not play by the rules. David has already told us that he was speeding. We know that to be the truth because he told us it was. In the 986 forum's version of court, the Highway Patrol must come to court, tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and accused gets to lie his ass off? Then the onus is on the Government to prove its case? Is that how it works? Apparently I must have slept through some of my classes.

Very well said, Griz!

My last speeding ticket was in 1971. I was speeding, I knew it and deserved the ticket. It never ocurred to me that I should fight it, in that I KNEW I was guilty!

It did not even ocur to me that I could beat the rap because MAYBE the cop wasn't PERFECT in the way that he caught me. He caught me AND I was speeding. I paid the ticket and moved on.

Candidly, had I decided to fight that ticket, I would have been a hypocrite. If you believe in the rule of law, don't cry if it bites you in the butt.

Human's are fascinating, they can rationalize anything if it is what they want to believe.

Frankly, I am so tired of these ticket threads.

My advice, if you were speeding, don't post here asking for information about how to beat the ticket. I waill simply delete the thread.

Now, if you were NOT speeding (and you know who you are!) then, ask for help in proving your case. That is an ethical and principled way to act.

To you others, hire a shark lawyer, pay the fees and leave us alone.

[Brucelee]

Oh, one last point.

Well, you see there was this pedophile who had raped and murdered a young child.

He frequented a Porche forum and he posted, stated that he DID commit the crime but he was pretty sure the cops did not do his arrest in just the pefect/legal way.

He was asking the readers of the forum for some help in how to beat this rap. After all, his RIGHTS maybe had been violated and he thought the readers of the forum would all gather around and help him fight the good fight.



Well, .................................................?

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by dbth

#1-You cannot commit perjury unless you testify.
The 5th amendment protects oneself from self incrimination.
The accused does not have to testify , only plead not guilty.
If the state can't prove the charge , he is not guilty.

O.K., let me get this straight. You're saying that David should go to traffic court, allow the prosecution to put on the Government's case, and then sit there like a mushroom so that he doesn't perjure himself?

Yeah, David, do that. Let me know how it works out for you.

Or better yet, actually plead the fifth in traffic court. Classic.

[trube78]

not to commit felonies. I see a basic problem with being responsible and understanding that acting irresponsibly will result in someone holding you accountable. In fact, I see many parents do not teach their children about responsible behavior. (I work at a University)

I hate these speeding posts and wish they would be removed. If you decide to speed and get caught. Man up and be responsible for your behavior. You were speeding and he caught you. I guess it is easier for some folks to look at their faults in the mirror than others.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by dbth

I give up.
Surrender your rights.

But keep your GUN and 2nd ammendment.

Peace out.

You of course, fail to see the point.

This guy has legal rights and he is free to exercise them.

He can ask for help from us to dodge what he did.

We are free to advise him to suck it up and do the time.

This has nothing to do with second amendment rights.

If you think so, well, you are free to do that to.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

O.K., let me get this straight. You're saying that David should go to traffic court, allow the prosecution to put on the Government's case, and then sit there like a mushroom so that he doesn't perjure himself?

Yeah, David, do that. Let me know how it works out for you.

Or better yet, actually plead the fifth in traffic court. Classic.

Perhaps David should hire DB to represent him in his case.

Then, perhaps JUSTICE will be served.

[David N.]

Let's be civil everyone, this is only a discussion. I'm accused of breaking one rule in a set of rules. Another rule exists on how broken rules are properly detected, I believe that rule was broken as well by the cop. It just so happens an additional rule in this set of rules allows me to fight my penalty because of something like that. I think the outcome of this fight would be informative to people here, that's why I posted this topic.

I'm not claiming innocence, I'm claiming due process. I'm not trying to absolve myself of the murder of a child, I'm trying to get out of paying my insurance company excess cash for being accused of a moving violation without enough evidence. That and that alone.

A spade is just a spade.

-David

[GmanMD]

David,

You do have a rather large problem here because your ticket is for doing 90 in a 65 mph zone. That is 25 mph over the limit and a rather hefty fine and points on the your license, and possibly license suspension in some states. Now, I don't want to get into the whole fight vs. fess-up argument, but often if you go to court you may have your fine and/or citation reduced where the impact on your insurance is much less. The state is happy as they still get their money and you're somewhat happy that your liability is reduced. It may even be worth it to get a lawyer on this one.

[kls]

As an ex-cop, let me suggest that there might be another side to the story. I can't say for certain in California, but in Oregon a citation could be written for something other than speeding if the speed could not be determined - such as Careless Driving. So who knows how he is claiming to have gotten the 90 MPH reading? I agree with the posts that question the logic of going to court and lying to show how unfairly you were treated.

My theory would be to use the declaration system and simply say that you had sped up for a short distance, but slowed before the cop was anywhere near you. The trouble with that logic of course is why would he have stopped you if he hadn't seen you speeding? Trust me, he didn't stop you because you were driving a Porsche. He saw a lot of other sports cars that day and probably left most of them alone.