Header installation - Need Help!
 

Hi,
I finally found the time to start my installation of my aftermarket headers. (See pics) Since my previous thread was lost during the computer blip a couple weeks ago I am starting another thread. I hope that's ok?

Anyway, so far I have been able to take out the driver's side header, but not without some bumps along the way. The first was when one of the head bolts snapped, but I bought a tool this morning to remove it (re: I have yet to try it). BTW, I just added the picture below (12/19).

The second bump was when one of the cat bolts snapped in half as well (Please see picture - sorry it's blurry. I took the pictures with my phone camera). So far, I am stumped. Are these bolts permanently on the stock cat part? It doesn't seem to want to come off. (See picture)

Please help. Thanks in advance.

DC

I forgot to mention....
 

BTW, I forgot to mention that the attached picture of broken parts are those of a socket (definitely a cheap one) that broke with the cat bolt. I do recall PorscheDoc mentioning in my previous lost thread that these bolts have a tendency to break....and sure enough that's what happened to me when I applied too much force! I was too excited...I learned very quickly to take my time. Also, I just wanted to thank PorscheDoc for suggesting PB Blaster! This stuff has definitely been worth purchasing!!

The bolts holding my cats to my headers (or vise versa) were nuts and bolts and loose (not welded to the cats). Because of the intense heat, they do get brittle. Hitting them with some bolt loosening stuff and letting it sit a half hour ain't a bad move.

The passenger side header is a lot more work than the driver's side. You have to remove the cross-brace to get to it. :mad:

The size difference between stock and aftermarket is huge, huh? That's what gives you the power increase that makes you feel like you are using 109 octane or something along those lines. My 2.5 feels a lot faster with my aftermarket headers and exhaust on it. I have a little more power and its a lot louder. The combo is simply amazing with the top down, especially when you go under a freeway overpass!

Oh yeah, be sure to zip tie off the AC line on the driver's side to move it away from the new header, and then wrap it with high temp foil tape or exhaust wrap to keep it from melting.

Hi,
I found that I had to remove both driver's side and passenger's side diagonal braces as well as the rear reinforcement plate to get more elbow room. Those were a bit of a pain too (I have managed to use 9, 13, 14, and 15 mm sockets so far). I also managed to break one of the smaller bolts that simultaneously attaches to the diagonal brace and the black plastic rock guard. (NOTE: I added a blurry picture on 2/1/07 to demonstrate the diagonal braces and plastic shielding that should be removed prior to DIY install. This picture was taken from the Bentley Porsche Boxster Svc Manual 1997-2004, p. 03-17)

I know I will have some work to do on the other side as well. I have the same issue there with one head and one cat bolt broken. I am on my last bolt on the cat side. I don't know how to get to it though. There's not enough room for a socket and I tried an open ended angle wrench that won't fit either...just not enough clearance. I guess I may try to pull it down a bit once the header is off to try to get a socket and ratchet to fit.

Yes, thanks for the advice. I do recall your suggestion from my previous lost thread. I do appreciate all your input that's for sure. It always helps when more knowledgeable people out there are willing to help out.

I will spray more of that PB stuff and be more patient....even though it's really difficult to be patient :) Thanks!

"The size difference between stock and aftermarket is huge, huh? That's what gives you the power increase that makes you feel like you are using 109 octane or something along those lines. My 2.5 feels a lot faster with my aftermarket headers and exhaust on it. I have a little more power and its a lot louder. The combo is simply amazing with the top down, especially when you go under a freeway overpass!"


All the more...I cannot wait to get these on and get going! I did have moments when I recalled you saying that I could have had it installed by a local muffler shop...especially when the bolts broke (LOL)

I have a 2.5 too (a 1999 Tip). I bought it last fall - Black with rust/red interior and hardtop. Since then, especially after reading many of the posts on the forum, I have been inspired (though I keep holding myself back) to add faux burlwood interior dash, staggered 18" BSA rims with Falken tires, replaced my discolored headlight assemblies (but still maintained the amber--haven't crossed over to the other side yet...though maybe next year), replaced a cracked amber sidelamp, front and rear anodized strut braces from one of our sponsors (****************************************), headers, and soon to be put on cross-drilled and slotted Zimmerman rotors....etc...too much to do!

@ dcporsche99
What brand headers are those?

I didnt read all the replys but my suggestion is HEAT and vise grip pliers. The one pic is a stud and you need heat and it will come right out.

"What brand headers are those?"

Hi,
Definitely ones that I would NOT RECOMMEND!!!!! I bought it off of Ebay for a ridiculously low price. It is one of the ones that have NO NAME just NUMBERS and I have come to understand why. Anyway, this guy basically takes your cash and leaves you out to dry....never returns any correspondences...just doesn't care.

Always goes back to the 'ol saying, "you get what you pay for".

"I didnt read all the replys but my suggestion is HEAT and vise grip pliers. The one pic is a stud and you need heat and it will come right out."

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I still have no luck with taking out the "stud" on the cat side. I am still spraying it like mad. Also, this tool that I purchased to deal with the "stud" in the head portion...I don't have enough leverage to drill this bit into it. I'm not making any headway with this contraption called "DRILL OUT". :mad:

Anyway, I'll have to get to the store tomorrow and look for a small propane torch to deal with these issues.

Make sure there's no flammable chemicals left on the parts under there before you take a torch to it!

Does the seller's user I.D. happen to be a2rinc based out of Addison, Texas?

"Make sure there's no flammable chemicals left on the parts under there before you take a torch to it!"

Thanks for the word of caution! You read my mind.

A2rinc sells a good cheap short shift though, I will give him that.

"Does the seller's user I.D. happen to be a2rinc based out of Addison, Texas?"

No, it's the other guy also in the area.....you may have better luck with a2rinc. Unfortunately, when I was trying to decide I did not see their headers for sale at that time....too bad :(

"Oh yeah, be sure to zip tie off the AC line on the driver's side to move it away from the new header, and then wrap it with high temp foil tape or exhaust wrap to keep it from melting."

Hi Randall,
I was able to get the header on despite the "studs" issue. I just wanted to see what it would look like. Here's a glimpse. (re: again, sorry for the poor resolution ---I will make sure to get better pictures later). But, from my view it looks pretty hot!!

Anyway, my question to you is - where and to what do I zip tie the AC line to? Right now it is actually sitting on top of the header...defintely can't keep it where it is.

I have the short shift kit and I wouldn't be so gun happy to say he sells good products. Yes the material is good and works,but it doesn't come with instructions, or contact number for support and they install completely unneccasary parts that confused the **************** out of me today when I was installing mine(maybe it's just me).

What was unneccesary? Did you make sure to rotate the shift lever so it bends the correct way? I didnt need instructions anyway, didnt bother me. My shifter was great.

"A2rinc sells a good cheap short shift though, I will give him that".

Hi,
Sorry, I'm not familiar with their products. Maybe I'll have to take a closer look the next time I'm on the Bay.

OK, still working on the last nut on the cat side--this time on the passenger's side. It's located at the tip /top. (see picture from driver's side cat "stud" that broke---same one, but on the other side). I don't want to have to take down the entire side from the cat back. Any more knowledgeable guys out there have any suggestions or know of any trick(s) to get to it.

Thanks in advance.

The second set of nut/screw are unneccesary,I thought about it for a long and then looked at the B & M instructions,theirs doesn't use it because it's useless. I just finished installing my shifter and I love the feel,not too far from stock but shorter. I'm pleased! Now to take it out for a spin! :D

Here's an updated picture of the obstructed passenger side (cat side) nut. Sorry, the picture is sideways and my finger may be in the way. Anyway, the nut in question is on the far right.

Thanks.

So is this one stuck or did it snap?

On the passenger side flange where there are 3 nuts: The top nut is actually welded to a mount of sort and a bolt on the other side. while the two bottom nuts are just nuts screwed onto studs that are connected to the flange.


You must basically get a 13mm regular wrench, hold that nut in place, then get a ratchet (or a small 3/8 in drive impact gun which i used to take off all bolts so as to prevent stripping or breaking bolts) with about a 6-9 in extension with a 13 mm socket and fit it through the lower bar of the suspension and unbolt from there.

I used an impact gun with a 3 inch deep socket 13mm connected to a 3 inch extension and hit it from the rear where the bolt is.

As for the broken stud, I wouldn't recommend those easy-out or drilling, because you run risk of hitting the threads of the hole into the cylinder head. Especiallg given the clearance and angels if you're working under jackstands, It's not very safe.

A bolt actually broke off when i was screwing it in after I installed my headers. So right now I have an exhaust leak from that one bolt not there. I am going to go to a shop to have them weld a nut (they weld the nut through the hole in the middle) to the broken stud and then you can use that welded on nut to unwrench the fabricated bolt out.


I can snap some pics of it tommorow to better illustrate what i am saying.

"So is this one stuck or did it snap?"

The one on the passenger's side appears inaccessable, but still intact.

"On the passenger side flange where there are 3 nuts: The top nut is actually welded to a mount of sort and a bolt on the other side. while the two bottom nuts are just nuts screwed onto studs that are connected to the flange.

You must basically get a 13mm regular wrench, hold that nut in place, then get a ratchet (or a small 3/8 in drive impact gun which i used to take off all bolts so as to prevent stripping or breaking bolts) with about a 6-9 in extension with a 13 mm socket and fit it through the lower bar of the suspension and unbolt from there.

I used an impact gun with a 3 inch deep socket 13mm connected to a 3 inch extension and hit it from the rear where the bolt is.

As for the broken stud, I wouldn't recommend those easy-out or drilling, because you run risk of hitting the threads of the hole into the cylinder head. Especiallg given the clearance and angels if you're working under jackstands, It's not very safe.

A bolt actually broke off when i was screwing it in after I installed my headers. So right now I have an exhaust leak from that one bolt not there. I am going to go to a shop to have them weld a nut (they weld the nut through the hole in the middle) to the broken stud and then you can use that welded on nut to unwrench the fabricated bolt out.


I can snap some pics of it tommorow to better illustrate what i am saying."



Thanks for the reply and good pointers. As soon as I can get that one little guy out and replace the old with the new header on that side I will get it to a local shop to get that taken care of....yes, please post some pics. I would really appreciate it. I will have to get some good pics with a digital camera so I can post them up as well.

"You must basically get a 13mm regular wrench, hold that nut in place, then get a ratchet (or a small 3/8 in drive impact gun which i used to take off all bolts so as to prevent stripping or breaking bolts) with about a 6-9 in extension with a 13 mm socket and fit it through the lower bar of the suspension and unbolt from there."

Wow! I don't know why I didn't see the obvious yesterday......... :rolleyes:

Hi,
Since my extension is too long...close to a 18" copper pipe (from my basement)...this might be a silly question too, but I'll give it a shot anyway. Can a torque wrench be used as an everyday tool (to loosen and tighten bolts..etc.) or is it just for the last tightening measurement? If I could use this, what setting would I put it on to give me enough "umpf" (if I may use that verbiage) to get this bolt off?......................nevermind, I was able to answer this question myself. Thanks anyway. :)

"I didnt read all the replys but my suggestion is HEAT and vise grip pliers. The one pic is a stud and you need heat and it will come right out."

Hi Ohio,

I think I'm gonna hold off on this one and leave this to the muffler guys....I'm a bit uneasy with the flame thing, especially with all that flammable stuff under the car. I could easily just see myself in one of those cartoons/comedy scenerios where a stick of dynamite blows up in my face (ie. burned hair on ends and soot and burns all over my face). I still like my face (LOL)...thanks though. Maybe if I were working outside....

Passenger's side header installation
 

That last nut ended up coming out with the help of my new variable speed dremel. Of course, thanks to my brother's pre-holiday present. Thanks Bro! No wonder why he told me to hold off on the header install. It's not a necessary tool to have as part of the installation, however in this case....boy, was it ever handy! :D

So, I guess the one note that may be helpful would be to first remove the small weld that is located at the top of where the nut and flange actually meet (cat end). Otherwise, it's a bit challenging to get a good hold of it with an open ended 13 mm wrench while using a ratchet (connected to a 13 mm socket )on the other end. I ended up stripping it. (Note: this is a M8 nut & a single M8 mm bolt accd'g to the 1997-2004 Bentley Service Manual. There are no other bolts of this type that have a small weld b/w the flange and the nut located at the cat end on either the driver's or passenger's side on a 1999. The other studs / bolts are heat pressed to the flange).

Also, when putting the headers on (at least these headers), it may be a good idea to get the two end bolts in first, but not too tight. Just so that the gasket lines up well and you have the correct fitment; although just to get a bolt or two in there to hold it up may work just as well. The headers get heavier and fatigue starts to set in when carrying them overhead while lying on your back.

Anyway, that stubborn nut is off and the headers are installed. I still have to make an appointment with my local Porsche mechanic to take care of the leaks from the broken studs and bolts. But, I will have to do that once my header wraps come in so that I don't melt my AC line. Other than that, it was a very cool experience!!

Will post some pics as soon as I can if anyone is interested!! :dance:

DIY basic header install tools..etc.
 

Hey Folks,
Here's a few pictures of the simple tools for those frustrated ones that could not find stuff online for the DIY Header installation. I used to be one of them. So, I hope this helps. I have compiled a few pictures of the simple tools that made it happen for me. (Sorry, they are in different posts - they would not fit).

And to the few that helped me online - I just want to say THANKS!! Could not have done it without you guys!! Also, I have purchased a few more items, but they were not necessary for the install. I will post some other pics when I have more time. Good luck and keep a cool head on your shoulders :cheers:

Other stuff...
 

Also, the one that helped a lot was this homemade (found lying around the basement) 18" copper tubing used as a breaker bar. Actually, it would have been more convenient if it had been 3-4 inches shorter, but it worked just fine. The basic 3 -ton jack and two stands help to prop up the rear of the car to get to the headers and give you ample space to work underneath the car.

PLEASE REMEMBER - SAFETY FIRST!! :eek:

BTW, here's a blurry picture again (sorry) of a post-dremel nut extraction. BTW, did I mention, in my frustration :mad: prior to receiving my new dremel, I took a power tool to it. :troll:

Hey I think the sellers I.D. was something like "42150" right? Is the header wrap really neccassary? Be sure to let us know how they perform after you fix the leaks!

Hey I think the sellers I.D. was something like "42150" right? Is the header wrap really neccassary? Be sure to let us know how they perform after you fix the leaks!



Yeah, it was something like that. Just keep in mind that this guys has very POOOOOR customer service, at least, in my case anyway. So, if you read a few of the negative feedbacks, you'll quickly learn why.

The header wrap will be extremely important in my case...my AC tube is just sitting right on top and just to the side of my header on the driver's side. Randall pointed this out in his earlier replies that it will help prevent damage to the hose....now I see why. I will get to posting those pictures soon if you'd like.

And yes, I will totally let you know how these headers perform, but without dyno results. Just listening to them a while ago, despite the leaks, I could hear the deep rumbling....it was pretty exciting! I can't wait, but I will have to until I get the wraps. They should be arriving on Monday or Tuesday. I ordered them through one of the local shops here. Apparently, many of the stores in my area do not carry them, so they are on special order.

Yeah, it was something like that. Just keep in mind that this guys has very POOOOOR customer service, at least, in my case anyway. So, if you read a few of the negative feedbacks, you'll quickly learn why.

I have been keeping track of these headers and trying to decide if they are worth it or not. Your input means alot,thanks.

The header wrap will be extremely important in my case...my AC tube is just sitting right on top and just to the side of my header on the driver's side. Randall pointed this out in his earlier replies that it will help prevent damage to the hose....now I see why.

I thought Randall said he zip tied them out of the way? You may want to search for some threads on the header wrap before you install them,it has pros and cons.

I will get to posting those pictures soon if you'd like.

The more the better,I may need to do this mod sometime in the near future.

And yes, I will totally let you know how these headers perform, but without dyno results. Just listening to them a while ago, despite the leaks, I could hear the deep rumbling....it was pretty exciting!

Has the leak/leaks set off any CEL yet?

"I have been keeping track of these headers and trying to decide if they are worth it or not. Your input means alot,thanks."

I would have to respond,.... it depends on what you want the headers for. I honestly wanted them because of the following two things: (1) inexpensive and(2) I wanted to know if I could install them myself. Now, if I end up feeling a slight difference in the ride (more power and a nice sound) without throwing any lights,.... well, I'll be happy. :dance: I haven't seen any CEL lights yet, but then again I don't think I let it run long enough to throw one off. Isn't there a time frame for these lights to go off?


"I thought Randall said he zip tied them out of the way? You may want to search for some threads on the header wrap before you install them,it has pros and cons. "

Unless, I quoted him wrong, this (below) was taken from post #15. Maybe I misunderstood him. If you could provide me with some of the pros and cons I would certainly appreciate it. Also, if there's an alternative, then I would appreciate that as well. Thanks in advance.

"Oh yeah, be sure to zip tie off the AC line on the driver's side to move it away from the new header, and then wrap it with high temp foil tape or exhaust wrap to keep it from melting."



"I may need to do this mod sometime in the near future."
In this case, I will try to post more stuff to hopefully help out...although, ...since your car is a more recent model, it may have wonderful little tidbits of its own... I think cats go with your headers, right?

I would have to respond,.... it depends on what you want the headers for. I honestly wanted them because of the following two things: (1) inexpensive and(2) I wanted to know if I could install them myself. Now, if I end up feeling a slight difference in the ride (more power and a nice sound) without throwing any lights,.... well, I'll be happy.

If I remember correctly you should have gained about 15 lbs. of torque and 10 hp at the wheels according the Randall's dyno graphs he did to his car after the modification.

"Oh yeah, be sure to zip tie off the AC line on the driver's side to move it away from the new header, and then wrap it with high temp foil tape or exhaust wrap to keep it from melting."


My mistake I thought you were going to thermal wrap the headers,I didn't know you meant the AC lines.

In this case, I will try to post more stuff to hopefully help out...although, ...since your car is a more recent model, it may have wonderful little tidbits of its own... I think cats go with your headers, right?

Nope it's a 99' as well.

Oh what a pain....I wrote you a reply & poof..gone!
 

Well, I'm too pooped to re-write the paragraphs that I wrote to you in response. But in a few words..... I would be happy with modest gains! That's fine with me.

So, in short, it's always good to be a wise and saavy consumer. Do your homework, find out what your needs are, make a decision and stick with it! :cheers:

dcporsche99: Great to hear you got the headers on, the headers are actually fairly easy to remove on our vehicles. Hondas and Toyotas are much harder, so feel graced that atleast something on our vehicles are easy to get to.


I too am making vidoes of stock exhaust being revved to 3-4k rpm and the headers and exhaust being revved to 3-4k rpm. There is a big difference not only in pull of engine while under load and also the sound.

But as for your comment on using a torque wrench. Never EVER use it to unbolt or as a regular wrench, depending on the torque wrench you have (the most common are the springs sprung inside ones) it messes up the reading of the torque. Also don't drop those tools, their calibrations for torque measurements can be misaligned resulting in you purchasing a new one.

Have fun driving the baby around, im sure you'd be happy with the results.

A few silly notes to self...
 

If I were to do this install again...I would:
(1) Buy a jack (a race jack preferably) that not only carries three tons, but does not feel like it weighs and manuevers as if it weighed three tons,
(2) Take the wheels off when I jack up the car (rear),
(3) Spray the header bolts and studs liberally with PB Blaster for 2-3 days ahead of time,
(4) Have a shorter breaker bar (approx. 14") in length,
(5) Be more patient and calm, especially in the beginning when the adrenaline is pumping...more likely to break or snap the darn bolts and studs off,
(6) Have a creeper (my back and the back of my skull were killing me after this install),
(7) Have a real light, not a freakin' ghetto flashlight (yeah, I have learned),
(8) Take off the plastic support in the middle of the car rather than letting it hang and hit me in the face numerous times before I decided to take it off.....it just had one screw....geez...talk about lazy....,
(9) Make certain that when the ratchet is turning, it's not because the head of the bolt is broken....though funny, please make sure that when you are removing these bolts....take your time and keep a steady hand. For whatever reason, I found these bolts to be sensitive. Not too much brute force. With a breaker bar connected to the end of your ratchet, turn it slowly at first (in the correct direction) until you hear a slightly high-pitched"click"....this was consistent for each bolt when loosened. Different from when the bolt broke, sounded more like a "crap, it broke",
(10) Make certain that when you are dislodging the headers, pull toward the front of the vehicle in an upward fashion and then down at the cat end...be careful as this is where elbows and forearms can easily get scraped,
(11) When installing the headers, especially on the passengers side, the header part facing the front end of the car should go in first, ...don't forget the first bolt to the header here (deep 13mm socket w/ long extension to help bolt go in) and then second either at the other end or somewhere in the middle just to keep it from falling,...tighten two ends first to make sure of appropriate gasket fitment,
(12) When putting on the new bolts with anti-seize, make sure to tighten in the same fashion....take your time and make sure the ratchet isn't bouncing around...this can break the bolt or cause you to have to re-thread the block or have the shop do it (not good),
(13) If no bolts or studs are broken then tighten remaining bolts to appropriate torque wrench setting (double-check this for your vehicle) or if you have broken bolts or studs go to your trusted shop and have them do it after they fix any leaks from broken bolts and/or studs (preferably replace with OEM products)
(14) OR better yet, if the bolts or studs are broken, set a propane torch to it while holding it down with vise grips...be careful as these suckers get ridiculously hotttttttttt...as Ohio said, they will easily come out :cheers: ....I will practice this one time Ohio, if not on this install, then probably for my new exhaust and cats!!LOL, can't stop laughing!! How's this? Thanks!

***don't forget to insert all the advice from the guys that made it happen in the first place**

etc.... (BTW, thanks to you too MNBoxster - Jim '99 - your initial post was on the lost thread as well. I appreciated your advice then too! I didn't forget!)

Hey kt1,

Yeah, thanks for the info!! All great advice! I was pretty happy that I didn't have to remove the entire exhaust assembly. I was dreading that possibility on the passenger's side when I couldn't get that last nut off. I really appreciated your input then...boy, did I ever! :cheers: