Oil Coolers?

[Need_for_speed]

I'm gradually working towards getting my 2000 Base 2.7L prepped to run a few DE days each year, and I wanted to know if any of you folks are running oil coolers.

I've done a lot of research here and elsewhere regarding oil related problems during racing/DE. The possibly erroneous conclusion I've derived is that it's not oil quantity or oil starvation that causes the majority of issues, but rather, it's the temperature of the oil itself. I've been lurking on the racing forum and it seems to me that drivers who are running deep sumps, Accusumps, or third radiators all still experience issues.

What caught my eye was one avid DE driver who recorded 270 deg oil times after a 30 minute session on track. I did a bit more research and discovered that when oil overheats in the M96, it tends to aerate and end up in the AOS, causing smoke bombs, frying engine components, and potentially hydro-locking the motor.

My understanding is that the Boxster S oil cooler wouldn't fit, and from an engineering standpoint, it's really not a very effective method for cooling oil.

So, I'm considering the Bilt Racing Oil Cooler Delete...
Bilt Racing Oil Cooler Delete. For installing external oil cooler. Eliminates heat exchanger. M96/M97 only. - Bilt Racing Products - Products LN Engineering

...along with one of the Mocal coolers available from our forum sponsor (to include a fan and thermostat).

Anyone here running a setup like this?
Are my concerns about oil temps overblown or incorrect?

Keep in mind, I won't be doing any spec racing with this vehicle -- DE only -- so I don't have to worry about spec rules prohibiting coolers. Thanks!

[The Radium King]

Single Fan Pack - Articles

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

I'm gradually working towards getting my 2000 Base 2.7L prepped to run a few DE days each year, and I wanted to know if any of you folks are running oil coolers.

I've done a lot of research here and elsewhere regarding oil related problems during racing/DE. The possibly erroneous conclusion I've derived is that it's not oil quantity or oil starvation that causes the majority of issues, but rather, it's the temperature of the oil itself. I've been lurking on the racing forum and it seems to me that drivers who are running deep sumps, Accusumps, or third radiators all still experience issues.

What caught my eye was one avid DE driver who recorded 270 deg oil times after a 30 minute session on track. I did a bit more research and discovered that when oil overheats in the M96, it tends to aerate and end up in the AOS, causing smoke bombs, frying engine components, and potentially hydro-locking the motor.

My understanding is that the Boxster S oil cooler wouldn't fit, and from an engineering standpoint, it's really not a very effective method for cooling oil.

So, I'm considering the Bilt Racing Oil Cooler Delete...
Bilt Racing Oil Cooler Delete. For installing external oil cooler. Eliminates heat exchanger. M96/M97 only. - Bilt Racing Products - Products LN Engineering

...along with one of the Mocal coolers available from our forum sponsor (to include a fan and thermostat).

Anyone here running a setup like this?
Are my concerns about oil temps overblown or incorrect?

Keep in mind, I won't be doing any spec racing with this vehicle -- DE only -- so I don't have to worry about spec rules prohibiting coolers. Thanks!

Actually, the S cooler fits perfectly, and is one of the best upgrades you can do the money. And oil to water coolers are actually more efficient at heat transfer than oil to air, plus you have no place to put an oil to air cooler. Add a 160F stat with the S cooler and your oil temps will drop 25-30F.

[Need_for_speed]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Actually, the S cooler fits perfectly, and is one of the best upgrades you can do the money. And oil to water coolers are actually more efficient at heat transfer than oil to air, plus you have no place to put an oil to air cooler. Add a 160F stat with the S cooler and your oil temps will drop 25-30F.

Awesome! Not sure where I read that the S cooler wouldn't fit, but I probably got it wrong anyway. Thanks JFP, that is certainly a really easy solution. I haven't checked Pelican to see if they have any S coolers available. Can I assume that this component is free from wear issues, in which case I can buy a used part (hello Woody)?

Am I on target with my analysis that overheating is the primary issue, or should I still consider a deep sump or accusump?

RK, thanks for the article. That is a very elegant solution.

[Need_for_speed]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Actually, the S cooler fits perfectly, and is one of the best upgrades you can do the money. And oil to water coolers are actually more efficient at heat transfer than oil to air, plus you have no place to put an oil to air cooler. Add a 160F stat with the S cooler and your oil temps will drop 25-30F.

Awesome! Not sure where I read that the S cooler wouldn't fit, but I probably got it wrong anyway. Thanks JFP, that is certainly a really easy solution. I haven't checked Pelican to see if they have any S coolers available. Can I assume that this component is free from wear issues, in which case I can buy a used part (hello Woody)?

Also, there's this, but not sure if it fits:

Large Oil to Water Heat Exchanger Kit - Parts & Upgrades - Products LN Engineering

Am I on target with my analysis that overheating is the primary issue, or should I still consider a deep sump or accusump?

RK, thanks for the article. That is a very elegant solution.

[The Radium King]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

RK, thanks for the article. That is a very elegant solution.

actually a very inelegant soln, and supports what jfp said if you read the conclusions at the end of the article where he removes the unit - very little room, air/oil is inefficient, and 986S (996) oem air/water cooler a better soln. also note the opportunity for/consequence of leaks once you start bringing the oil external of the engine.

re oiling, i do not think there is one silver bullet. you could decide that without slicks you won't be generating enough g-force to cause starvation, and pop your engine. or, you could put in a 2 litre x51-baffled sump and an accusump and ... pop your engine.

oil temp is a great place to start. still concerned? then replace the oil pressure switch on your engine with a vdo combo pressure switch/sender unit and rig up an oil pressure gauge. you can track temps to by replacing the rear driver head plug (diagonally opposite the pressure sender) with a temp sender and a temp gauge (get a DIN two 52mm gauge plate and install in place of one of the cubbies in your car). watch your temps to see if you need more cooling, watch your pressure in sweeping, banked turns to see if you need sump baffling, accusump, etc.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

Awesome! Not sure where I read that the S cooler wouldn't fit, but I probably got it wrong anyway. Thanks JFP, that is certainly a really easy solution. I haven't checked Pelican to see if they have any S coolers available. Can I assume that this component is free from wear issues, in which case I can buy a used part (hello Woody)?

Also, there's this, but not sure if it fits:

Large Oil to Water Heat Exchanger Kit - Parts & Upgrades - Products LN Engineering

Am I on target with my analysis that overheating is the primary issue, or should I still consider a deep sump or accusump?

RK, thanks for the article. That is a very elegant solution.

We always use new coolers as you have no idea of the condition of used stuff. And we do not use aftermarket coolers like Pelican sells, we have not had any luck with them.

If you intend to do serious track time, you will need a deeper sump, baffles, an Accusump system, and probably a third radiator as well.

That LN unit is not a factory fit system, it is a remote mount system using water hoses and AN lines for the oil.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

Am I on target with my analysis that overheating is the primary issue, or should I still consider a deep sump or accusump?

.

From my data collected at hpde events, as oil temp goes up, so do pressure dips caused by g forces, and overall oil.pressure is lower as well.

On cooler days where the water temp stays pegged at 180, the oil gets to around 205-210, and pressure dips are greatly reduced. I see this at Roebling with lots of non full throttle sweepers.

A track like the firm, with lots of lower speed WOT and less cooling time, the oil heads up to 220-230, maybe getting close to 240. Pressure dips are worse.

New for the last time, I bypassed my failed rad fan ballast resistor on the left side so the fan runs on high anytime it is on, I set the AC on 75 and ran it at low, which ran the driver side fan at high and the other on low. This helped keep the car cooler, I would flip.it on partway through the session and could watch the temp come down. If I flipped it on a cool down lap, temps came down pretty fast.

I am.going to fix the ballast resistor so it doesn't run on hi all the time, and wire a switch to jumper the hi speed relays so I can run them.both on demand. It will be interesting if this works to keep the oil cooler.

Before messing with the oil cooling side I am going to maximize the water side. Maybe there is a better rad fan I could put on?

Edit: I run the 2 QT LN deep sump, and spin on oil adapter, those are my only oiling mods.

[Need_for_speed]

Steve, what oil were you running with?

Please allow me some dumb questions: would running with a higher viscosity oil for track work ameliorate the pressure dips? Would a high viscosity oil handle the heat better and cut down on aeration?

I like the idea of having a switch to run the fans on high on demand and I could swear that someone on the forum did just that. I'll have to do a search.

[Need_for_speed]

Originally Posted by The Radium King

oil temp is a great place to start. still concerned? then replace the oil pressure switch on your engine with a vdo combo pressure switch/sender unit and rig up an oil pressure gauge. you can track temps to by replacing the rear driver head plug (diagonally opposite the pressure sender) with a temp sender and a temp gauge (get a DIN two 52mm gauge plate and install in place of one of the cubbies in your car). watch your temps to see if you need more cooling, watch your pressure in sweeping, banked turns to see if you need sump baffling, accusump, etc.

This is an excellent approach and I will definitely look into it -- a proper track car would allow you to monitor both oil pressure and temp.

Also agree with you on bringing the oil outside the engine creating the potential for leaks. That's exactly what concerns me with an Accusump. I follow the racing guys on this forum pretty closely (to me, they're the equivalent of test pilots in my previous life...) and I see them talking about how they still have the same overheating issues with third radiators, Accusump, etc. It seems these engines run damn hot, and they're in a tight, hot little compartment behind you with not a terribly effective way for that heat to be released. In my way of thinking, that passenger side vent should be a hell of a lot larger and incorporate a much larger fan to help pull the heat out of the engine compartment. That said, I also wonder if we couldn't have some sort of modified underbody panel with a more effective air scoop to pull more air into the engine compartment. These cars are pretty sealed up underneath, and the existing scoops in the underbody panel seem anemic. I know clearance issues would be a concern, but I think a better design should be possible. Or, I guess, remove the panel entirely...

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

Steve, what oil were you running with?

Please allow me some dumb questions: would running with a higher viscosity oil for track work ameliorate the pressure dips? Would a high viscosity oil handle the heat better and cut down on aeration?

I like the idea of having a switch to run the fans on high on demand and I could swear that someone on the forum did just that. I'll have to do a search.

I saw one theory, if a street car runs the oil typically at 200F, and on track it gets to 240F, they find a viscosity that at 240F has the same (I don't know the right word, "thickness?") as their usual street oil at 200F. On rennlist somewhere.

Mobile 1 5W50 is approved for our cars and Napa runs sales from time to time. A lot of folks run that on rennlist, and I guess being a 50 it has more "protection? I wish I knew the right word" at higher temp than a 40?

I am using Millers Nano 5W40, I just recently did my first oil change after 5900 miles and around 10 months (would have to check my records to very the dates) and it still had plenty of TBN and the rest of it was good as well. My initial plan was to draw a sample at 3000 miles and get a uoa but I forgot

At a 6000 mile interval, which was all hpde and driving to/from the track, dollarwise it is cheaper than the DT40 (not designed for track) with a 3000 mile interval. I'm looking forward to my next UOA on the millers, now that I'm on the 2nd fill so less cross contamination from the previous oil.

[Need_for_speed]

Steve, let us know how you do with the Millers.

I also checked out BFans thread on oil mods and it's all coming together now. I was confused between the Boxster S and 997 oil cooler -- I got them mixed up, thinking it was the Boxster S cooler that wouldn't fit.

I'll probably just start with an S oil cooler and low temp thermostat as JFP wisely recommended, especially since the ultimate solution appears to be a dry sump system. My guess is that would be a prohibitively expensive mod for these little cars -- might be better off just moving up to a 911. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Porsche nixed dry sumps for the Boxster as they wanted to keep the selling price low.