GEBA pump with metal impeller

[shadrach74]

Originally Posted by Spinnaker

Not trying to add to the debate, but the plastic impellers break even when the bearings are still fine and there is no shaft wobble. The risks of each type are well documented, so we make our choices and take those risks that come with what ever pump you choose. It's your car to do whatever you want to do to it.
There are plenty of used engines around to replace whatever type of failure you may experience, whether it is a breached crankcase or a cracked head.
The joys of Boxster ownership live on.

This...

I've been stranded twice by plastic WP impellers that split in half. I've had only one metal pump fail, which amounted to a minor leak long before catastrophic failure was likely. I'm sure others have legitimate reasons for their feelings on the subject, but my experience is that the "metal mill" scenario is one that I've only heard substantiated second hand. Lots of grim warnings about the risks, but no pics or rist hand accounts. Is there any one out there that has pics of their damaged block from a metal impeller??

[Heiko]

shadrach74 - there seem to be pro's and con's to each scenario when you look at failures and how they happen etc. Since GEBA just started running this pump since late last year, I thought i'd send them a message to see what they had to say about this 'new' metal impeller setup and how it fairs against the dreaded 'engine case destroyer scenario'. (I like their products because they make awesome pumps for VW and BMW) anyhow... I got a very quick and kind reply from the production manager in Germany.... (which I will translate to short here)
"We started production of the new pump 15007 at the end of 2012 and decided to utilize a metal Impeller because of the known Problems with the plastic ones. We also decided to utilize for these pumps the original bearing which Porsche is using for their production series which features an added Roller Bearing design which will reduce radial and axial play to a minimum." Also the distance between the pulley and Pump housing are extremely small, so if bearing failure would occur the Impeller could not move significantly into any direction"
Looking at this new pump, I like it; its not cheap, but equally priced to the LASO pump which seem to have its own set of issues at times.
Anyhow, I like trying new things especially when its new and revised - technically it should be better

[Idaho Red Rocket 3]

Good for you Heiko. It is nice to see guys who are willing to challenge the norm. I too was thinking of a quality pump with metal impeller for the next go. Please tell us where you sourced the pump and what it cost to purchase. I know these things often have higher prices outside the USA.

[Heiko]

We bring them in through 'Auto Camping' but I think WorldPAC carries them as well... (haven't checked with them yet) We sell them out of the shop for $329.00 + tax... I know the dollar is basically par but I wouldn't be surprised if you can buy it cheaper over the counter in the US than we can wholesale up here... seems to be the way it goes

[Jake Raby]

The person who made those statements has obviously never touched an M96 engine. Typical.

[Heiko]

Jake, no offense but that's like saying 'no one' will ever be able to make a metal impeller pump that works because you've written them off due to bad experiences... personally I like to think positive and give folks the benefit of doubt especially when it comes to new and improved products.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by shadrach74

This...

I've been stranded twice by plastic WP impellers that split in half. I've had only one metal pump fail, which amounted to a minor leak long before catastrophic failure was likely. I'm sure others have legitimate reasons for their feelings on the subject, but my experience is that the "metal mill" scenario is one that I've only heard substantiated second hand. Lots of grim warnings about the risks, but no pics or rist hand accounts. Is there any one out there that has pics of their damaged block from a metal impeller??

We have had three cars in the shop that had the engine cases ruined by metal impellers on aftermarket pumps that had to have replacement engines. In addition, we have had others where the engine cases were torn up, but still intact enough to be used, although they needed extensive work to clean the fine metal dust out of the cooling systems before they could go into service. And in each case, they suffered overheating issues because the clearance between the rear of the impeller and the engine cases was now large enough to reduce the pump's ability to move coolant.

Listen to Jake; he is spot on with this problem.............

[sam c.]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Thats an excellent "milling machine" to destroy your crankcase when the bearing fails.

Originally Posted by san rensho

When it fails, the impellers hit the engine case. If the impellers are metal, they will chew through the case and ruin the motor.

Note: WHEN it fails...! Not "if" and regardless if you maintain your car, but WHEN it fails, you're done.

Originally Posted by Spinnaker

the plastic impellers break even when the bearings are still fine

Originally Posted by shadrach74

I've been stranded twice by plastic WP impellers that split in half. I've had only one metal pump fail, which amounted to a minor leak

Which was then followed by this classy retort...

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The person who made those statements has obviously never touched an M96 engine. Typical.

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

We have had three cars in the shop that had the engine cases ruined by metal impellers on aftermarket pumps that had to have replacement engines. In addition, we have had others where the engine cases were torn up

Wow. So the take away from all this is you can't use a metal impeller because it will almost immediately come alive, devourer your block, and when it's done come after you and your family.

So in summary, water pump with metal impeller = :troll:

And you can't use a pump with a plastic impeller because you won't get around the block without it shredding into plastic confetti requiring a complete tear down of the entire engine for cleaning.

water pump with plastic impeller = M96

[sam c.]

What I'm taking from all this is that Porsche can't even design and build something as simple as a cooling system/water pump that doesn't totally suck. Why am I not surprised... (IMS, dropped sleeves, etc.). Seriously, it's like trying to work with those as$ clowns over at Chrysler all over again - and they were a joke.

Why is every failure apparently catastrophic with this company?

Hey Porsche, if the cooling system was a little too tough to handle, why don't you try an engineering task just a little simpler. You know, to get some points on the board and hopefully build some successful momentum...

Here's a wet paper bag.

[sam c.]

In my mind, the solution here is remove Porsche engineering from the equation all together.

http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/43501-electric-water-pump-electric-ps-pump.html