Dyno Report : GIAC DME Stage 3 Program on Boxster S

[Adam]

I check with my dealer and see what they say. Brucelee, what do you think?

[Brucelee]

My guess is this is a warranty buster but I will check it out later today with my dealer.

[Adam]

Mucho gracias Bruce

[Brucelee]

Dealer says as follows:

These mods would void emissions warranty (7/70) immediately.

They MIGHT void warranty on engine related problems, ie internal or electrical. Dealers are now reporting any mods they note on engines and chassis during service visits. If a problem develops, this could be used to deny warranty claims.

So, say you play with the suspension and develop a related issue, you could be denied coverage.

So says the local experts.

[Lux]

Know your rights.

There is something called the Magnusson-Moss Warranty. You can read it all here: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm

Here's a little blurb on it that I picked up off the net:
No aftermarket part or accessory that is properly installed on your vehicle will entirely void your original vehicle manufacturer's warranty. According to the provisions in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act, it is the dealership's responsibility to prove that your modification directly caused or affected the failure you are trying to resolve.

With that said, some dealerships are more performance-oriented than others and are more willing to work with customers. After all, if they won't comply then you have no choice but to take them to court. Not entirely convenient.

Warranty-related materials, published by the new vehicle manufacturers, usually state that the installation of aftermarket parts have no effect on the warranty unless such equipment causes the problem that leads to the warranty claim. Check your warranty to be sure this is the case.

Nonetheless, some dealers have improperly denied warranty claims even though the claim had nothing to do with aftermarket parts. I.E., just because you install an exhaust system, your suspension failure warranty claim cannot be denied. If you experience a problem with an uncooperative dealership, point out the provisions of the this "FEDERAL ACT".


-

[Adam]

Thankyou for the input. I don't care about emissions violations because I don't live in CA or other environment friendly states. However, if my engine grenades down the road I want to be 100% certain they won't try to shaft me on warranty issues if these mods are installed. I'll check with my dealer and see what they say.

[Brucelee]

Why spit in the wind for what appears to be no noticable performance gain? Lets face it, we have yet to have strong evidence that Porsche has not gotten the breathing and chip issues handled.

Just my two cents but esp during warranty, I want my dealer on my side. Esp given the aftermarkets apprarent failure to improve perf with the Boxster.

Now, on the issue of Rear Main Seals..........

[Adam]

Well, I certainly agree most mods are smoke and mirrors particularly for the boxster, however, clubhead's S cranks out a good 20hp more than stock which is almost entirely contributed to the Dansk headers and cats. I've heard and read stock 00-02 S's put down about 220whp with is right in line with the 15% industry standard on driveline losses. He unfortunately doesn't have a base setting so we will never never no for sure his exact gains. I do know that I would be happy with a 20hp gain for around 1,500 dollars(I can get a sweet discount.

[clubhead]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

...Lets face it, we have yet to have strong evidence that Porsche has not gotten the breathing and chip issues handled.
....

Does that mean my dyno reports on my cats and headers are all for piss then??! If those are not evidence, I really don't know what else is. Yes, I'm lacking a baseline but the dyno run between the headers and cats shows gains across the entire rpm range.

It's pretty apparent that the stock headers are manufactured with cost savings in mind, lacking a common collector and not of equal length. The photos I've attached of the stock and Dansk design should convince most that the latter superior.

I'm just so sick of this stock-is-best mentality. There're some areas where it's just a waste of money (GIAC, intake) but there are other areas where improvements can be had. I've tested and showed both sides of it but for some reason, there are still people who thinks nothing beats stock from Porsche And Stuttgart just have everything engineered near perfect....

Wake up people and try to be objective will ya?

[Adam]

I agree with you on the the headers Clubhead. I've looked at mine up close and are definately not optimized for performance.

[andicati]

I think that Clubhead has really done us all a massive favor. His data shows what pretty much every respectable tuner is telling us is true. The exhaust systems of modern cars are a significant compromise of performance vs emissions and sound.

A US spec Porsche has to comply with a wide range of State emissions regulations. It is no surprise that the manufacturers choose to sell only one model that meets even the most stringent (CA) spec in order to optimize costs. Smaller manufacturers like Porsche often even compromise Euro spec cars to conform to the most stringent (lowest common denominator) requirements.

I remember visiting the Ducati factory in Bologna a few years back and commenting to the CFO on the multitude of different spec same model bikes awaiting shipment and he replied that in a few years time they will have converged all models to one spec, to the detriment mostly of the Europeans.

Porsche are engineered to a much higher level than the average rice burner or detroit stump puller. However, their intake and exhaust sytems have to be sub optimum from a performance perspective. Also, lets not forget that we are dealing with a $40- $50k Porsche...they had to shave costs somewhere!

The interesting thing about Clubhead's data is the fact that the intake and ECU mods yielded little gain which helps the rst of us focus on the exhaust side until someone can prove that the intake boost can be had for a reasonable cost. Thanks Clubhead!

[clubhead]

Originally Posted by andicati

....The interesting thing about Clubhead's data is the fact that the intake and ECU mods yielded little gain which helps the rst of us focus on the exhaust side until someone can prove that the intake boost can be had for a reasonable cost. Thanks Clubhead!

You're welcome At least I'm getting constructive comments here.

I could've easily just posted my positive dyno results on my headers and sports cat and left out the bad results on the intake, muffler and ECU to save myself looking like an idiot who just wasted a bunch of dollars. Afterall, this place is for sharing our experiences. But there're just people that're itching to say "I told you so" once they read about the negative experiences. Just look at the response I got off the UK Boxster board and you'll know what I mean... I'm not posting dyno results (positive or negative) over there anymore.

After going through all this, did anyone notice the European tuners (Gemballa, RUF, etc) mostly leave the stock intake piping in place and just make do with an aftermarket filter element? I think they've gone down the route of the Evo type intake with less than positive results.

So I'm going to source for a BMC filter element and replace the Evo intake kit with the stock piping kit. A dyno and report will then follow

The local dyno shop just loves me....

[Adam]

I think that is a good idea on the BMC. I love mine and it only costs 70 bucks. I really do think the intake system is about as good as it is ever going to get with the BMC filter. Unlike the EVO system, the stock system sucks only sucks in fresh cold air from outside the engine bay.