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Old 08-23-2008, 11:41 AM   #1
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Anyone have a Raby rebuild yet?

I have been checking their site out and they are rebuilding and upgrading 2.5, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.4 M96 engines.

Does anyone in here have one of there engines? They say they can safely increase bore on the 2.5 and 2.7, increasing them to 2.7 and 2.9 respectively. With a good valve job, bore increase and ECU reprogramming they claim 260+hp with the 2.5 (bumped to 2.7). I would assume a few more hp with the 2.9.

Here is my thoughts on this. I think the ugraded and rebuilt Raby engines will last longer and run very strong, but they will not increase the value of your Boxster.

A 3.4l swap will cost about the same, have a few more ponies and will increase the value of your car, allowing some return on investment of the engine swap cost if you sell it. But I don't think the 3.4 will be anymore reliable than the 2.5 or 2.7 you took out the the car.

Anyone that has had them rebuild their engine please give me your thoughts, even if it was for a competition vehicle. I'd like to know your thoughts on dealing with Raby and how long it took to get the engine built.

Sean
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:46 AM   #2
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I don't even think Jack has more than one of each rebuilt just yet. Sounded to me like they were still in the last stages of getting the program together.

I do not think the intention was to increase the value of boxsters, but simply to provided a needed service. The new spec boxster series will need a supplier like this too.
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Old 08-23-2008, 12:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabel
I don't even think Jack has more than one of each rebuilt just yet. Sounded to me like they were still in the last stages of getting the program together.

I do not think the intention was to increase the value of boxsters, but simply to provided a needed service. The new spec boxster series will need a supplier like this too.
I agree that increasing the value of the car was not his intent, but from a price, performance, value stand point, Raby will be competing directly with the engine swap option for customers and as such, you have to make a good case for the rebuild or people will just stuff 3.4l engines in and call it a day.

I'm just giving my opinion and would like to hear other peoples opinions and experiences with swaps, value, rebuilds and such. I think this subject is very hot in the 986 community as most of our cars are getting up there in miles and or have had engine problems.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:19 AM   #4
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I'd be very interested to hear from someone who winds up with one of these in their car.

Patrick
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:54 AM   #5
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I stumbled upon this post and figured I'd clarify a few points on the program we have developed.

Quote:
I have been checking their site out and they are rebuilding and upgrading 2.5, 2.7, 3.2 and 3.4 M96 engines.
Correct, but not just rebuilding. We have re-developed many aspects of the Boxster and 996 in partnership with LN Engineering.

The idea behind the project was to solve the major issues with the Boxster and 996 engine while offering the opportunity to actually rebuild engines, by making the procedures more known and by creating our own assembly tools that are easy to use and available for purchase.

Quote:
Does anyone in here have one of there engines?
Until a few weeks ago our engines were not for sale as the main focal point tus far has been research and development as well as component manufacturing. We are currently assembling the first engines that will be delivered to purchasers, some 3 years after the initial development processes began.

No engines have been delivered to thus far, but several are in the works as we are working to build an inventory of engines and components to mee projected future demands.

Quote:
They say they can safely increase bore on the 2.5 and 2.7, increasing them to 2.7 and 2.9 respectively. With a good valve job, bore increase and ECU reprogramming they claim 260+hp with the 2.5 (bumped to 2.7). I would assume a few more hp with the 2.9.
Correct and those are real numbers. The cost for a performance engine isn't much more than the stock rebuild as ALL engines get the Nickies cylinder upgrades to guard against future cylinder related failues, like the D chunk.

Quote:
Here is my thoughts on this. I think the ugraded and rebuilt Raby engines will last longer and run very strong, but they will not increase the value of your Boxster.
And neither will a factory Reman Porsche engine. The factory engines have been upgraded over time, but in a production manner the changes we are doing couldn't be applied by Porsche in high volumes.

We get a fair amount of calls from owners with factory re-man engines that have had a failure, some in less than 10K miles, but it seems the majority occur around 30K.

Quote:
A 3.4l swap will cost about the same, have a few more ponies and will increase the value of your car, allowing some return on investment of the engine swap cost if you sell it. But I don't think the 3.4 will be anymore reliable than the 2.5 or 2.7 you took out the the car.
The stock 3.4/ 996 engines are the absolute worst for cracked heads and D chunk failures. we have repaired more 3.4 cases than all the others combined thus far, and those had the most radical failures of all. They also seem to have the worst IMS failures.

Quote:
Anyone that has had them rebuild their engine please give me your thoughts, even if it was for a competition vehicle.
You won't find any of those people, as they are all currently awating their engines to be completed.

Quote:
I'd like to know your thoughts on dealing with Raby and how long it took to get the engine built.
An extensive amount of information about my company is available b doing a simple google search for my name. My biggest area of expertise has been in the Aircooled engine world and the re-development of the Porsche 914 engine. The 914/4 engine had many issues from the factory and for the first 20 years of it's existence it was considered a black sheep that not many people wanted. I put a decade of development and application into it and turned my version into a true "problem solver" for the 914 world. I have done similar things with the 356/912, also with exceptional results.

Three years ago I was approached by Charles from LNE Engineering to assist him with the development of the 986/87 and 996/97 engines. I had been prodded by many folks to apply my experience with engine and component design with other engines into the later model Porsche engines and finally I decided to open a division to specialize in this, I would head this division.

We have now solved most all the general Boxster and 996 component issues and have a product that we feel is ready to be applied to the market. We will continue to hone the processes and components as evolution and experience is further gained.

Thats a little about me/ us and the program. More can be found on our websites as we are more well known in the aircooled circles than anywhere else.


I'll now address some comments made by other posters in this thread:

Quote:
Posted by Kubel.
I do not think the intention was to increase the value of boxsters, but simply to provided a needed service. .
Correct. We have never been concerned with the increase of vehicle costs and until a few weeks ago we had no concern with costs at all! Till that point we hadn't even added up the costs of building the engines as we were more concerned with the efforts being effective more than anything else.
I believe that over time our finished product will become synonomous with effectiveness in the Boxster world as more cars are equipped with our engines and components. At that point, more than likely cars equipped with these engines **may** be worth more coin.

Quote:
The new spec boxster series will need a supplier like this too
Correct and we are currently working with the "powers that be" to create a "spec Boxster" engine that will not give a performance edge to the purchaser, but will provide the added reliability and longevity that competitors can desire. The combination we are testing now does just that. It was difficult not to provide more power that a stock engine as the Nikisil and our valve job alone can make a HUGE differene in power and throttle response.

Quote:
By silver arrow
I agree that increasing the value of the car was not his intent, but from a price, performance, value stand point, Raby will be competing directly with the engine swap option for customers and as such, you have to make a good case for the rebuild or people will just stuff 3.4l engines in and call it a day.
I want to take the opoprtunity to share a bit about what we desire from the program . The ultimate plan is to make these engines capable of being repaired and modified by more normal gear heads, or by independant Porsche shops across the country that currently can't even work on them, because they can't source parts, tools or even ask anyone a question.

We will be offering "rebuilt" engines that are fully dyno tuned and upgraded, but thats more the case initially as we need more and more experience to learn the engines inside and out. The ultimate goal is the creation of a program that will provide open source support to the enthusiast and shop alike and will allow shops to attain components, tools and even training on using these items when creating a Boxster or 996 performance engine.

So, just to clarify, we have started the first US based engine alternative for the 986/97 and 996/97, and we have no intention to compete with Porsche or engine swaps. We feel that there is a significant market for our alternative engine program, especially as the cars become older and are used more in amateur racing venues that would not accomodate the 3.4 conversion.

Guyss wanting even more power than the 3.4 can provide would also be interested in the higher echelon of our offerings, using boost specific components and application.

The goal was to provide an option. That option would be a true alternative to paying Porsche for a re-man engine. And we looked into the future to the time when Porsche will no longer offer a re-man engine for the early cars, leaving thousands of owners without any options for engine repair. The tentative date fior this is 2011, so we will be well prepared for the day, when it comes.

Quote:
I'm just giving my opinion and would like to hear other peoples opinions and experiences with swaps, value, rebuilds and such. .
At the present, it is VERY difficult even for a shop, or a professional to "rebuild" the engines. The parts are almost impossible to find (Porsche lists them, but try to order them) and not enough people have taken engines apart and rebuilt them successfully to have any knowledge base as of yet. It was even difficult for a guy like me, an engine designer and developer to do this! Thats what we want to alleviate, foiling Porsche's "plot" that worked for several years.

Quote:
I think this subject is very hot in the 986 community as most of our cars are getting up there in miles and or have had engine problems
Exactly.. We want to make it a possibility for the Boxster to be worked on internally in the back yards and garages all over the country, and help people overcome the complexity that Porsche designed into the rebuild process by supplying parts/ services/ training for anyone who desires it..

So, thats pretty much sums it up.. The program is going strong already, and with our original businesses paying the bills we were able to afford the development of this program without having to "sell" engines to clients as "guinea pigs". We have our own test vehicle (98 Boxster) and have used it to apply concepts and gather data.

We are currently working on both single and twin Turbo application specific engine internals as well as the "kit" of components that will compliment these into complete packages.

In the aircooled world our team has been very effective, doing more R&D and true development than anyone else over the past decade. We plan to develop the Boxster and 996/97 engines with the same level of dedication and philosophies and we are certain that we'll be successful.

Thanks for the opportunity to discuss our program.

Jake Raby,
President, Flat 6 Innovations
www.flat6innovations.com

FWIW- I have sent several messages to the admin about advertising here on the forums, so I hope the post doesn't "ruffle any feathers". If a member of the admin will please contact me I'll gladly begin advertising!!

Last edited by Jake Raby; 08-25-2008 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:58 AM   #6
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Thanks for dropping in Jack. Nothing like hearing from the proverbial horses mouth
I've been following the discussions about this on the spec boxster forum, if it all works out we will be very fortunate to have this resource available to us.
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:11 PM   #7
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Thanks for the welcome...

The Boxster following has been very inviting to the program thus far because there is so much untapped potential with the vehicles, if the engine just had some alternatives.

Its been a real challenge to get as far as we have, but thats just part of the learning curve and more than likely is the reason why no other group has really worked with the engine, at least here in the US.

I look forward to more interaction with the following here on the forum.. Voice your concerns and comments, let us know what you want!
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:24 PM   #8
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Thanks for dropping in as well. For those of us looking for more performance, and contemplating 3.6 swaps, what can you offer? In my case in particular, when giving you back a running 3.2 core?

I would guess the biggest limiting factor to be the heads, no?

Patrick
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:47 PM   #9
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QUOTE=Jake Raby]Thanks for the welcome...

I look forward to more interaction with the following here on the forum.. Voice your concerns and comments, let us know what you want![/QUOTE]

I don't speak for everyone here but someday my 2.5 is sure to pop. When that day comes I will be looking for a larger displacement NA motor that is tuned, balanced and as bulletproof as you can make it. We get lousy 91 gas in Calif so a turbo is less interesting to me (also would never pass smog).

I don't need fire breathing performance that is at the edge of destruction. If I can get reliable Carrera S straight line performance in the the Boxster I should still be able to outrun most of the rear-enders in the corners. Boxsters with stock motors regularly run top five at the track out here. A few extra ponies couldn't hurt.
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Old 08-25-2008, 04:17 PM   #10
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Jack,

Your web site discusses a stage 4 NA setup. Have you done a 2.7 increased to 2.9 yet and if so, what kind of hp did you get? What supporting mods are required to get maximum performance? Exhaust, headers, larger injectors?

Sean
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Old 08-25-2008, 04:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Your web site discusses a stage 4 NA setup. Have you done a 2.7 increased to 2.9 yet and if so, what kind of hp did you get? What supporting mods are required to get maximum performance? Exhaust, headers, larger injectors?
The stage 4 N/A set up is being machined as we speak.. It will be second in line for assembly and testing very soon, at which time we'll be developing the sub-systems to optimize it. This engine will more than likely use 3.2 injectors, and a specific exhaust system to make the best of the head work and cam alterations we are doing. Developing the sub-systems has proven to be the biggest challenge with any engine design, for us as these items change with internal mods.

This engine would certainly require headers.

Quote:
Thanks for dropping in as well. For those of us looking for more performance, and contemplating 3.6 swaps, what can you offer? In my case in particular, when giving you back a running 3.2 core?
At the current time most of our main focus has been on the 2.5 and 2.7 engines as they are the oldest and have the greatest failure rates. The 3.2 is a damn good engine compared to them, or even the 3.4 engine as they seldom if ever have catastrophic failures and finding one with a D chunk failure is very difficult. This is due to their more substantial cylinders.

The 3.2 engine is best if left stock displacement and only enhancements made with cam/ head work, or at least thats where today's school of thought is on the topic. That might change next week :-)

Quote:
I would guess the biggest limiting factor to be the heads, no?
Not really! The heads on all the engines are more than adequate for serious power potential. These are the first engines that I have worked with that have more head than they really need for their displacement and thats one reason that the 2.5 and 2.7 engines are so anemic down low, below 4K RPM. With those we are trying to boost torque down low, therefore making the car faster and increasing drive-ability. This is being done without a loss of top end performance... A stock 2.5 cylinder head flows an amazing 220 CFM on our bench, and thats ungodly for such a short stroke, 85.5mm bored engine!

Quote:
don't speak for everyone here but someday my 2.5 is sure to pop. When that day comes I will be looking for a larger displacement NA motor that is tuned, balanced and as bulletproof as you can make it. .
And thats exactly what we'll be offering and thats why this was started several years ago, well before there was any demand for such an item. Having been in the custom engine business all my adult life, I know what guys want and how to make it happen. We'll certainly be able to provide well mannered power-plants with a boost in torque, drive-ability and all around performance without a sacrifice of reliability.

I have found that most any Porsche enthusiast appreciates what I do and thats a solid dual purpose engine thats capable of being effective in AX as well as DE events and can be driven to and from those events. Thats certainly what we are shooting for.

Quote:
We get lousy 91 gas in Calif so a turbo is less interesting to me (also would never pass smog)
I know all about that.. 85% of my continental US based clients for the aircooled market are in California.. I have become well versed with the Cali fuel and know how to manipulate it's use.. Unfortunately nothing we'll do will pass smog in Cali., or at least that what I must tell you up front. Creativity on your end, well.....

There is a TREMENDOUS potential with performance with the Boxster engine once the inherent BS design issues are overcome. These engines LOVE critical assembly, the valve job that we do alone is worth 15 HP... Thats just one example, we'll continue to unlock power as we gain experience with the program.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:21 PM   #12
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Jack,

I really appreciate your comments in this thread. Thank you for the real information, something that can be lacking when dealing with Porsche when discussing their engines. Your web site is very interesting and it is shocking to see the shoddy work that Porsche puts into its remanufactured engines.

I look forward to seeing your 2.9 results. I hope I don't need it anytime soon, and so does my 401k, but it is nice to have an option.

My wife and I were talking about a quality engine rebuild vs engine swap today and she brought up an interesting point. Swapping in a 3.4 may increase the value of the car for resale and have some ROI for the cost, but you will be right back where you started if it goes pop, and some $30,000 in the hole. It's a pretty big risk to take unless you sell the thing after the swap right away. I plan on keeping this car as a toy and ax/de car and this seems like it will be a great option.

Thanks again
Sean
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:39 PM   #13
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Jake, Welcome !

My question is about cost of your engines, especially for the early 2.5's. As you say this is where you have concentrated to-date and feel this is a major market for you.

Given these cars low current market value, will the cost of your engine make it a viable alternative, or one which is too rich for many's blood?

If you have a MY '97 or '98, how much sense does it make to put a $10k or higher motor into such a car as opposed to just going out and buying another car? Many of the 2.5 owners are 2nd or 3rd owners and have the 2.5 because they are the only cars in their price range.

If the car's value drops any further, as it may well do because of high fuel prices, shifting demographics, etc., these cars may be in danger of becoming 'disposable' as opposed to throwing a big bucks repair at it.

How will your motor compare on a cost basis with a factory reman?
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:29 PM   #14
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You can also go direct to source of the key component of these rebuilt motors. I'd like to see a few builders using these Nickie 986 cases.

http://www.lnengineering.com/boxster.html

Anyone know much about the place in the UK that has done inserts for cases as well? Looks like free market is driving some solutions.

Raby tends to be high end. I'm looking for Toyota of engine builders - solid quality at reasonable price. Jake is more of a one off specialty engine builder - he does a great job but his prices tend to be out relm of most who get into a sub $18K 2.5 986 Boxster like most of us. I'd like to see a higher volume engine builder take on these motors to drive cost effeciency.
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Old 08-25-2008, 09:50 PM   #15
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A very intriguing thread Jack.
I,like many folks will be watching as things progress.

Jim
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantsfo
Anyone know much about the place in the UK that has done inserts for cases as well? Looks like free market is driving some solutions.
autofarm. that guy's name is Raby, too. any relation, jake?
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:56 AM   #17
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From Silver Arrow
Quote:
I really appreciate your comments in this thread. Thank you for the real information, something that can be lacking when dealing with Porsche when discussing their engines. Your web site is very interesting and it is shocking to see the shoddy work that Porsche puts into its remanufactured engines.
We were also shocked to see some of the practices within the engines, things like welded blocks and areas that were marked as problematic, yet engines were still assembled with these parts. One 30K mile engine has several modes of failure that haven't been mainstream, but we are now starting to get complaints of simil;ar symproms from some people inquiring about our engines.

Quote:
I look forward to seeing your 2.9 results. I hope I don't need it anytime soon, and so does my 401k, but it is nice to have an option.
Yhe 2.9 is the engine that I look most forward to developing as I feel it will offer the best bang for the buck. Since it is based from the 2.7 core we are trying to source more of those as they are the hardest to come by.

I hope to have results from the first 2.9 sometime in early 09.

Quote:
My wife and I were talking about a quality engine rebuild vs engine swap today and she brought up an interesting point. Swapping in a 3.4 may increase the value of the car for resale and have some ROI for the cost, but you will be right back where you started if it goes pop, and some $30,000 in the hole. It's a pretty big risk to take unless you sell the thing after the swap right away. I plan on keeping this car as a toy and ax/de car and this seems like it will be a great option.
And thats a real possibility, especially since the 3.4 has so many issues that are similar to the 986, but generally end with more catastrophic failures.

From Lil Bastard
Quote:
My question is about cost of your engines, especially for the early 2.5's. As you say this is where you have concentrated to-date and feel this is a major market for you.
Yes, the 2.5s are the oldest, most problematic and experience the highest rate of failures.

Quote:
Given these cars low current market value, will the cost of your engine make it a viable alternative, or one which is too rich for many's blood?
Thats really according to the intent of the car and what you are looking for. When one looks at a stock engine the cost is in line with the Porsche offering at todays rate. When one looks at the 2.7 (2.5 based big bore) engine the prices start to be easier to appreciate as there are power gains. When one looks at the 2.9 Performance engine the gains show up pretty clearly in cost Vs output. These 2.9 engines based from a 2.5 case with a 2.7 carrier and crankshaft are more than likely going to be our best offerings in cost Vs output.

Quote:
If you have a MY '97 or '98, how much sense does it make to put a $10k or higher motor into such a car as opposed to just going out and buying another car? Many of the 2.5 owners are 2nd or 3rd owners and have the 2.5 because they are the only cars in their price range.
That was me.. my test car is a '98. Porsches have cost associated with their ownershop and the proble with the "Porsche master plan" behind the Boxster was it led to huge depreciation in a short time, due in part to the high quantity of them on prodiuced as well as the higher cost of repairing the engines.

As I have stated before, it is not our master plan to rebuild tons and tons of these engines! What we want to do is provide procedures, components, upgrades, specialty tools and specific training to those who would like to work on their own engine.

This means that ultimately local shops will be able to repair engines, source parts and tools to do the job without having to buy a complete engine from us. I want to provide enough complete upgraded engines to apply our procedures, but its not smething that we wish to do in a full scale, long term plan.

By the end of 2009 we will have a plan in action that will allow shops to be representatives of what we do and one price will buy them the opporunity to sourece parts at wholesale levels, and the same will go for our procedures and we will include training here at our education facility as well as DVDs on the topic. This will allow shops to do the work that they have had to turn down for so many years and possibly offer a lower cost option to the public.

I also plan to offer DVDs on these topics to the novice that will illustrate how to do the procedures and step by step how to rebuild the engine. I have an in house instructional video division that will make this a possibility for us and will increase awareness to the novice and make it possible for an engine to be "rebuilt and upgraded" at home. I have extensive experience with DVDs like this for the aircooled engine, and those have been great tools to assist the novice with their project.

Porsche never intended for the Owner to maintain or repair the engine/ car and we want to counter their plan.


Quote:
If the car's value drops any further, as it may well do because of high fuel prices, shifting demographics, etc., these cars may be in danger of becoming 'disposable' as opposed to throwing a big bucks repair at it.
They already are.. In the past month I know of two cars that were parted out because the owners could not afford to repair them. Blame Porsche for that.

I think we will see these cars being used more and more for competition and perhaps that will keep them alive.

Quote:
How will your motor compare on a cost basis with a factory reman?
At the current price from Porsche we are within 750.00 of the Porsche price for a bone stock 2.5 engine. What Porsche won't offer is a performance engine, so thats sure to be our biggest seller as it doesn't cost much more at all to get much bigger output.

From Grant
Quote:
You can also go direct to source of the key component of these rebuilt motors. I'd like to see a few builders using these Nickie 986 cases.

http://www.lnengineering.com/boxster.html
Yes, LN Engineering and my company have teamed up to create these developments and procedures. They do block work for anyone who wants to tackle the job themselves.. But thats the easy part because it only takes one phone call and one opening of the wallet.

You can look at the cost of their service and see where a huge portion of our costs somes from with the upgraded engines, because its a 4K investment for the Nickies upgrade and JE pistons and EVERY engine we build will get this, because otherwise a repeat of a D chunk failure could occur in short order.

Anyone using the LN Engineering services to recondition a block will end up having to charge the same or MORE that we do. More than likely they won't be able to source the rest of the pieces as we have had to literally make main bearings and a ton of smaller pieces because they could not be sourced from Porsche.

Quote:
Anyone know much about the place in the UK that has done inserts for cases as well? Looks like free market is driving some solutions.
Thats AutoFarm. Their practice is much like the factory and their cylinders aren't Nikisil. The cost experienced with their method is more than ours and they even use "used" pistons. It may be a viable solution for European clients, but not for those in the states with the dollar Vs the pound exchange rate today.

Quote:
Raby tends to be high end.
In my Aircooled business we certainly go toward the higher echelon, but thats a totally different world than the Boxster engines and thats for several reasons. The Boxster program is being standardized because we have to universally be concerned with Motronic compatability, emissions and other constraints that we do not have to consider with aircooled engines, due to their age.

In the aircooled world EVERY engine I design and build is different and thats made possible by their simplicity and the vast array of components available. This is not the case with the Boxster and 996, so standardization is the key.

Quote:
I'm looking for Toyota of engine builders - solid quality at reasonable price.
As always, you will get exactly what you pay for. The Boxster engine is ot simple to assemble and not fun to work on internally. It takes as long to assemble a stock Boxster engine as it does to assemble a 250 HP aircooled engine, because of that labor costs will be a consideration for anyone, even a mass rebuilder. Historically mass rebuilders of Porsche engines have been failures waiting to occur.

With any engine there is certainly a required amount of labor to reach an acceptable goal. In this case the labor and practices to upgrade the cylinders to Nickies, upgrade the IMS as well as the additional upgrades cost a significant amount of money. These are the things that are required for future issues to be avoided, and those corners can't be cut.

If we did a simple "rebuild" of an engine without the upgrades the cost would be 5K less, but the labor would still be the same and I don't believe that clients would find it acceptable to experience the same failure again in less then 5K miles, and thats a possibility without upgrades being applied.



Quote:
Jake is more of a one off specialty engine builder -
I tend to be comprehensive, doing what is required to attain an acceptable result. I will be that way no matter what we work with, be it a 40 year old 914 engine, or a 2008 Boxster. Thats is what makes us effective.

As I stated several times in the past, the program we have created is totally different than it's aircooled counterpart. We realize the differences in Boxster owners and the owners of earlier cars. We also realize that the amount of Boxsters on the road and the demand for these services will warrant more standadrization and solid solutions for common problems. Due to this, we started from scratch and are ready to meet any demand necessary for stock UPGRADED rebuilt engines, class specific rebuilt engines and larger displacement, dual purpose performance packages.


Quote:
he does a great job but his prices tend to be out relm of most who get into a sub $18K 2.5 986 Boxster like most of us.
Grany, you are assuming this, and you are not correct. The prices for our engines are now posted on our online store that is under construction, bt can be accessed from our website www.flat6innovations.com

There you will see that the prices we post rival that of a stock factory remanufactured engine and certainly don't cost much more to add significant HP and torque increases. The price we have for a stock Nickies upgraded engine is just a few dollars more than the current (recently revised) price for a Porsche reman engine without the Nickies upgrades, etc, etc. As the dollar vs the euro continues to increase prices for the Porsche reman units, our engines will remain at standardized pricing as most all parts we are working with are made in the USA.

Quote:
I'd like to see a higher volume engine builder take on these motors to drive cost effeciency.
Take a Boxster engine apart and re-assemble it and you'll see why this can't ever really occur effectively. The engines are labor intensive and were not built to be "worked on" easily. Anyone who completes a cheap rebuild of the engines will be taking their chances on future cylinder failures and the same BS that takes a fair chunk of Boxsters off the road every week. Thats not something I intend to be associated with.

Now, sorry to be so long winded, but al the comments and questions have been great and the deserve detailed responses from me.

For those of you who don't follow the aircooled boards...

Grant is a prior 914 guy.. In the aircooled workld he has always been a critic of my work and especially what we charge for components and engines. It was ironic when he recently traded his 914/6 race car for a Boxster...

I'll close by saying that everything in life has a cost of admission and you will always get exactly what you pay for. The Boxster has engine issues and the cost associated with a true resolution of these issues isn't ever going to be "cheap".

Once again, our goal is to make the engine more easily repaired and updated by empowering local shops and enthusiasts to do the work themselves.

(why?? Because thats exactly what Porsche didn't want to occur!)
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Old 08-26-2008, 07:03 AM   #18
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insite
that guy's name is Raby, too. any relation, jake?
The article on autofarm was writen by Philip Raby, a well known British editor. I did not know the Owner of Autofarm was also named raby.. I'll look into that.

My name is rather common in the the UK, especially in the North, around County Durham where my ancestor's Castle still stands today. I visited it in 2006 www.rabycastle.com

:-)
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jake Raby
The article on autofarm was writen by Philip Raby, a well known British editor. I did not know the Owner of Autofarm was also named raby.. I'll look into that.
it's probably philip i was thinking of. so your shop is in cleveland, GA? can i come up and check it out sometime?
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:32 PM   #20
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by insite
it's probably philip i was thinking of. so your shop is in cleveland, GA? can i come up and check it out sometime?
Yes our test and assembly facility is located in Cleveland GA and the components and case update work is carried out in Momence Illinois.

We are not a walk in type facility, we generally don't see more than two customers a year as we work odd hours doing behind the scenes stuff..

I'd be happy to schedule a tour for you if you'd like to come see us. Wednesday evenings are the best time for this.

We'll be testing for the next 3 weeks, so the chances of us having a time for a tour would be slim to none through the end of September...
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