So, What do you consider "bullying" on the forum

[Jamesp]

I was recently accused of being a forum bully for posting "Where the heck is KRAM.." followed by what I considered an exaggeration of what I considered KRAM like posts.

KRAM was a notable character on the forum and has disappeared. For the record I liked KRAM and supported him with pictures (because he was after all technically correct from a certain perspective) in the great ridge rotor wire debate, though I wished I hadn't in the wreckage of the follow on.

According to one opinion,

"my understanding of bullying is this:

- having an opinion is not bullying (however right or wrong or foolish it may be)
- defending that opinion is not bullying
- defending yourself when personally attacked is not bullying.

however,

- ridiculing someone is bullying
- personally attacking someone is bullying
- ganging up on someone is bullying
- using your perceived strength or authority to intimidate is bullying (in this case the perception that a higher post count somehow makes a person's opinion be more valid).

having watched many of the threads in question, i'd say kram or johnathan are not the bullies, but bullying has certainly occured."

I find this too broad a brush - ridiculing someone is bullying? I've been ridiculed on the forum for rebuilding an engine ("nobody would want an amateur shade tree mechanic rebuilt M96" or some such tripe) and for inventing my own IMSB fix. I recognized those people had opinions and attitudes and moved on to better company. But I wasn't bullied.

personally attacking someone is bullying? Really? If that person is displaying asshattedness in the forum slamming others or bragging over their perceived attributes? Or that person who responds to a simple request to restrain their comments by instantly going on a full out offensive?

Ganging up - So perceived bad behavior is to be ignored by all? No comments? One of two things happen, the moderator would be overwhelmed from everyone with nits on "Johnny said this and I'm offended!" or a bad actor would have free reign. "Ganging up" is the communities way of communicating and regulating typical social behavioral norms.

Perceived strength - I don't know what that is. I have no clue on how to figure out who has what standing. I certainly have none. Taken literally anyone with a high post count had better be cheerful and polite all the time or they are a bully (We're looking at you Timco)

My sense of bullying is much more narrow than the above

Overly Aggressive posts with minor or no provocation
In this narrower definition JL was trying to bully right out of the box (read some of his first posts), and unsurprisingly ran straight into a buzz saw.

Continual abuse of someone for a perceived or real gaff i.e. chasing someone around and bringing it up constantly.
My personal view is that the great rotor wire debate unfortunately devolved into that.

Responding in kind, or an occasional reference depicting a caricature of someone's posts in a humorous light is not bullying. Pointing out bad behavior such as providing incorrect technical information or trying to bait the forum isn't bullying. Doing that actually allows someone the opportunity to modify their behavior. Getting a free car comes to mind...

What are your thoughts?

[flaps10]

There is not, nor has there ever been a "right to not be offended".

People need to grow a spine

[Timco]

Re-post of my remark from other thread:

If you want some respect and desire to belong to an existing community, don't be a jerk. Don't lie to the forum and tell others different things in IM. Don't purposely troll members to get a negative reply. Don't be as crude as you can be.

Put a cap on it and maybe just try to fit in just a little?

If you want to lie and antagonize and brag and annoy, be prepared to take some heat from those who don't think they should have to put up with it.

I was glad to call a spade a spade with Coreseller and Landa. What a couple of useless tools. Like SAE sockets in the metric drawer.

Was I a bully. I'll wear that hat if that's what you wish to call some garbage being taken out, but I refuse to be straight out lied to or watch a member IM another to death then solicit a gang against him while not even owning a 986. Landa? How crude and vile and antagonist does a person need to be before someone tells them exactly what they think of their attitude and throat chops them?

Obviously the site is not moderated regularly or even weekly until their inbox explodes with reports. A regular mod may indeed help.

ETA. I've IM'd a few members who I know I offended way back with that cat thing. Mark asked me personally not to mention that animal. If I missed you, I do apologize for that mess.

[JayG]

Enough said

Lock the thread

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by JayG

Enough said

Lock the thread

Not sure what that means. Can you expound? The intent is to let forum members communicate their opinions which I see as a good thing. I dunno, probably influenced by the 1st amendment. Locking the thread would preclude this. I'm unsure of your point.

[paulofto]

I spend more time on this forum than most other Porsche forums for 2 reasons; First, it is dedicated to the Boxster and not all Porsches in general, Second the people here are generally much more approachable and decent when it comes to discussions.

Many other forums, that I won't name here, actually look down on Boxster owners like we are poor cousins insinuating the Boxster is a lesser Porsche. Meh.

As far as bullying, I believe the best solution is to ignore the ranters and ravers. They have a right to speak their mind, free speach and all, but I have a choice to ignore them. To be honost, in my year or so on this forum, I haven't seen nearly the kind of abuse that I have seen elsewhere, including other non-Porsche related forums. Some people feel it is fine to say and do things on line that they would never say to someones face. Myself, I'm kind of old school, I only say in print what I would say to someone in person.

We should all keep it civil but lively. That's what keeps this forum fun.

Thanks for your time.

Now go drive your Boxster.

[Mark_T]

Originally Posted by JayG

Enough said

Lock the thread

So apparently having 1450+ posts gives YOU the authority to decide when enough has been said and demand a thread be locked? Some would consider that bullying. I just consider it arrogant.

[Topless]

My 2c

I have been around here for a while and generally think this is one of the best car forums anywhere. Most everyone is respectful and there is a full spectrum of ownership here including pro wrenches, DIY wrenches, shade-tree modders, concours types, track rats ,daily drivers, and general enthusiasts. A pretty diverse group who get along pretty well.

This forum is for the open exchange of ideas and sometimes folks are gonna disagree. Sometimes there are spirited disagreements about a general idea, activity or procedure. I don't think this is bullying as long as the activity is the focus of the conversation, not the individual member. If a topic gets too heated I just step out. No harm, no foul. It's just a car forum.

Bullying to me gets personal. Personal name calling, stalking, harassing posts or PMs, personal attacks or threats of violence, or inciting others to pile on a single forum member are the definition of bullying. When it gets personal, somebody is out of line and it's time to shut it down. This is pretty consistent with 986 forum rules of conduct I believe.

It's just a car forum. If someone annoys you just move on to a different topic for a while.

[plus3db]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

So apparently having 1450+ posts gives YOU the authority to decide when enough has been said and demand a thread be locked? Some would consider that bullying. I just consider it arrogant.

Your response is bullying

And many would consider you arrogant as well

It may be JayG was thinking this thread was going to get out of hand quickly.
Comments like yours speak to that.

The first posts kind of say it all on the subject, hence not many replies
up to this point, the thread has not gotten out of control

I guess I should brace for an attack form you now

[RandallNeighbour]

JamesP: The definition of bullying and determining who is being a bully here is squarely in the hands of the administrator/owner. We all have our own opinions of what bullying is and what it feels like to be bullied, but when a user is accused of it by an admin and warned, it is what it is.

When BruceLee owned this forum he was far more strict with his definition of bullying because he knew that anonymous postings from passionate Porsche owners could get heated quickly. And strong headed users really disliked his narrow definition of bullying and being warned privately to play nice when they even got close to being viewed as a bully by him.

We actually get a lot more leeway now than a while back when the owner was reading most every post.

[Jamesp]

So this is really interesting. JayG said lock the thread, and I didn't (and still don't) get it. Another member saw that as bullying and cited a high post count. I felt confused, not bullied so I'm a bit dense (possible), Jay G is a really inept bully (also possible) or more likely there was another intent to the post I didn't get. I'm thinking there may be a broad range of interpretation at play here. I'm not taking any of this to seriously and instead I'm taking Paulofto's advice and keeping it civil but lively AND going to drive my Boxster!

[Giller]

The problem on here when it comes to 'bullying' is that, for the most part - it comes down to interpretation. As James said - he didn't know if JayG was trying to bully or be funny or as someone else said, had a feeling where this could go and tried to head it off.

Anyways, I for one am not worried about bullying here. Most of you all are good guys (yes, even some of those street racers.....they're just idiots on that one topic) and all I have to remember is the old sticks and stones mantra.

[JayG]

As Plus3 surmised, it was I had a feeling the thread was going to go off the rails quickly and have been pleasantly surprised, it has not. There recently have been a few threads that went bad quickly.
Had I wanted to bully, it would have been obvious. Number of posts has nothing to do with anything related to this subject

BTW, you can't lock your own threads here unlike rennlist
Only the moderator can lock a thread

[Mark_T]

A note of clarification... Yes I was taking a bit of a shot at JayG because I did perceive his post as a bit high-handed and arrogant. He gave his opinion that the thread should be closed and I responded with my opinion of his opinion. I don't consider that bullying, just calling it as I saw it. Differing opinions expressed openly. This isn't the playground and we're not children.

I did not actually consider his post as bullying either. That part of my post was a tongue-in-cheek remark referencing an earlier post about people with high post counts thinking that implied some kind of authority and that they would try and bully others on that basis.

I don't really care what Plus3db thinks because he only has 38 posts and he is poor.

Bottom line IMO - don't choose to be a victim and you can't be bullied. Stand your ground and don't take crap. That's how we dealt with bullies in my day and it really is that simple. No counsellors, moderators, mommies, or focus groups required.