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Old 06-21-2013, 01:25 AM   #1
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Tesla Model S Battery Swap Demonstration

Tesla Model S Battery Swap Demonstration

Tesla Model S Battery Swap Demonstration

Tesla Model S Battery Swap Demonstration, can they change the battery in less time then filling up a gas tank? watch and see.
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:13 AM   #2
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This is a novelty car and always will be. There is no way they will ever cover the entire nation let alone the low population areas of states. Yes, this can work in a larger city, but when you live in an area (like I do) 3 hours from the larger cities...it ain't happening. You drive out to small farming communities and the towns between them, you will always find a gas station...you think they will put one here? How about eastern Oregon...they have a hard enough time based on land laws and property ownership rights to keep existing gas stations in place. As I said, this is a novelty car...
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:08 AM   #3
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"Always" Eric? That's a strong statement. Internal combustion is antiquated, barbaric, and will die...and it won't be a choice. The internal combustion engine will be banned someday...Hopefully within our lifetimes. Mark my words

Electric is the future. I know it's scary, but you'll have to embrace it someday
Electric cars can easily outperform internal combustion, not to mention efficiency. Current Tesla models are pushing 90%+ efficiency, whereas internal combustion efficiency rarely exceeds 20%. Can you say POS?

Currently, the only problem is charging. Swapping out batteries like this is clearly not a viable method. The transition will happen more quickly once we come up with a battery that can be charged and discharged very fast. I can tell you that this type is less than 10 years away.

Remember that people had the same negative reaction to the internal combustion engine. They wanted to keep their horse-drawn carriages. It has to start somewhere. People will get over it, they always do. Change is scary, and it hurts peoples feelings.

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Old 06-21-2013, 10:13 AM   #4
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The charger station network is growing exponentially.

EV Charging Stations to Grow to 11 Million by 2020, Pike Research Forecasts | CleanTechnica

And EV stations (unlike a gas station) can be anywhere, has no regulations, and is as simple as a power outlet. The grocery store down the street from me just put an EV station in it's parking lot - and it's free. Gas is dangerous, and is highly regulated and permitted not only due to the danger of fire and explosion, but also because the underground storage containers leak, and are mandated to be replaced at set intervals.

In addition, the batteries are becoming smaller, lighter, and with dramatically increased ranges

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/153614-new-lithium-ion-battery-design-thats-2000-times-more-powerful-recharges-1000-times-faster

With a range like that, you will be able to drive from Coast to Coast with one charge, that charge will take about 1 hour, and cost next to nothing.

The Model S is sold out. No novelty about that. Pre-orders for the Tesla SUV are greater than any vehicle in the history of humankind. Tesla is increasing it's production space to increase the output to keep up with demand, and they paid back the loan to the US ahead of schedule.

Europe has a stronger demand for the sold out Model S than in the US.

Report: Tesla Expects To Sell 500,000 Cars, Europe Model S Demand Strong

The best part of a Model S (or nissan Leaf) is, they are sold with chargers. The average person can plug into a standard household socket, and charge for .07cents per kilowatt. That's the same as getting 130mpg of gas.

Overall, electric vehicle sales are predicted to triple within the next 2 years, with Tesla leading the % of the vehicles sold.

I purchased Tesla stock in the 30's, and I will say, the ride to 100 has been novel!


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This is a novelty car and always will be. There is no way they will ever cover the entire nation let alone the low population areas of states. Yes, this can work in a larger city, but when you live in an area (like I do) 3 hours from the larger cities...it ain't happening. You drive out to small farming communities and the towns between them, you will always find a gas station...you think they will put one here? How about eastern Oregon...they have a hard enough time based on land laws and property ownership rights to keep existing gas stations in place. As I said, this is a novelty car...
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:40 PM   #5
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Old 06-21-2013, 12:56 PM   #6
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I will eat my words if this is proven wrong...but when you couple a staggering level of infrastructural requirements not limited to but including power grid upgrades needed, rare earth availability, mining and milling requirements along with environmental considerations (including rules that have yet to be enacted) its not going to happen.

I do not doubt that the car has and is selling well but it is filling a solid niche market. For those early investors this is going to be a boom market and millions will be made by some and lost by others.

Oh and Particle...you haven't hurt my feelings. I love a good discussion as this one clearly has defined points/sides...there is not right or wrong on talking points. The only problem is, it won't be settled anytime soon.
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:07 PM   #7
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Start eating. They are currently selling home solar power kits specifically for electric car owners - there is very little infrastructural requirements. Some owners are currently fulling charging their vehicles directly from the sun, at home.

It's already happening...and, according to US dept of transportation stats, will continue. Do a little research, you'll get there.

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I will eat my words if this is proven wrong...but when you couple a staggering level of infrastructural requirements not limited to but including power grid upgrades needed, rare earth availability, mining and milling requirements along with environmental considerations (including rules that have yet to be enacted) its not going to happen.
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
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I will eat my words if this is proven wrong...but when you couple a staggering level of infrastructural requirements not limited to but including power grid upgrades needed, rare earth availability, mining and milling requirements along with environmental considerations (including rules that have yet to be enacted) its not going to happen.

I do not doubt that the car has and is selling well but it is filling a solid niche market. For those early investors this is going to be a boom market and millions will be made by some and lost by others.

Oh and Particle...you haven't hurt my feelings. I love a good discussion as this one clearly has defined points/sides...there is not right or wrong on talking points. The only problem is, it won't be settled anytime soon.
Sorry if I came across a little strong. I do have strong feelings about electric technology as it has been my passion and job for 15 years. I agree that there are great hurdles to overcome, but this needs to happen.

Our current modes of transportation and some electric power generation methods are simply not sustainable
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #9
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While you can feel comfortable in the fact they are moving some issues forwards, and solar use currently is on the rise, you failed to consider the other factors that occur behind the scenes that make all of those conveniences you just mentioned happen. Your case for home charging is novel, but it fails the ho ho test when it comes to the cost structure. Your average American family does not and will not have the necessary funds to even come close to being able to enjoy any of the advantages "solar" can provide. Add to this a artificially supported industry (in this case solar) through loans and trade agreements that will be changing in the near term.

Yes you will have sales and yes the numbers may look impressive at first...but look at the market sector that is capitalizing on this and then couple that to the individuals who are buying. They are not your standard American families. With the Tesla it is no different than the exotic car market. Thriving...yes, sales through the roof...yes, do you see them in every driveway and every home? No, it is a niche market that is supported by a specific few and that is the case here as well.

As for my research, I work at one of the leading U.S. National Laboratories (for the last 20 years) which has as one facet of our research the US and Global energy sector. Additionally, we also have a human factors and social science section as well. These groups have and still are looking into many of the topics raised here. Now, it does no good to start spouting papers and research studies as people that have a passionate feeling for a topic tend not to want to hear scientific results. I stand by my comments...
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #10
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And then what happens when the US government finally allow zero point energy patents to flourish ?
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:15 PM   #11
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Whoa...scary.

No, I did not fail to consider the "Behind the scenes". "Behind the Scenes, the Government offers a 7500 tax credit for those who buy a full ev car, and they are subsidizing the charging stations coast to coast...you are 180 degrees wrong - they are not only NOT adding regulations, they are encouraging the switch. If you did some research first, you'd know that there are zero "behind the scenes factors" hindering ev cars, but rather, aiding them. Behind the scenes, more incentives are projected for electric cars by the government.

Portland a EV-charging haven with no excuse for range anxiety

Behind the scenes, electric companies support ev cars, and have the capacity to keep up with demand:

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/residential-rates/!ut/p/b1/hc5BC4IwHAXwTxR7buL0OEm2v5VmLrNdwkOEkNoh-vwt8FJQvduD34PHHGuZG7tHf-nu_TR211d30SmItTJUg_TeKlC6TAOzIaAIPTh6gC9R-Lc_MPdOYqszT1ZImi0XoZSfQO8kB-VNti7TgCPmM0g0MpOXHthKgESFolZKANEMfpwszDSc2W1o0dNC PQHsmxwA/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/?from=/residential/rates/electric-vehicles.htm

You can drive up the entire east coast in a Tesla S TODAY...people do it everyday! Nothing, NOTHING stands in the way of additional charging stations...regulations "behind the scenes" pushed for expanding the charging network, and it continues to grow

https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/residential-rates/!ut/p/b1/hc5BC4IwHAXwTxR7buL0OEm2v5VmLrNdwkOEkNoh-vwt8FJQvduD34PHHGuZG7tHf-nu_TR211d30SmItTJUg_TeKlC6TAOzIaAIPTh6gC9R-Lc_MPdOYqszT1ZImi0XoZSfQO8kB-VNti7TgCPmM0g0MpOXHthKgESFolZKANEMfpwszDSc2W1o0dNC PQHsmxwA/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/?from=/residential/rates/electric-vehicles.htm

All "those conveniences" have been here for the past 5 years. Right now, there are charging stations covering the entire east cost. Instead of your opinion, please, share some links with us that contain data from a university or agency. Nothing in your opinion jibs with any research, facts, data, polls, or "behind the scenes" factors...nothing.

Certainly, you are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion lacks any factual support, in fact, your opinion is so completely opposite of every piece of data that has been released.


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While you can feel comfortable in the fact they are moving some issues forwards, and solar use currently is on the rise, you failed to consider the other factors that occur behind the scenes that make all of those conveniences you just mentioned happen.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:52 PM   #12
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As such, you validate my point... I hope you have a good weekend my friend.
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Old 06-21-2013, 05:50 PM   #13
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no, 180 degrees wrong again. The charts indicating that the charging stations are growing at a fast clip, you can drive the entire east coast, that "behind the scenes" the government is encouraging ev use and charging expansion and the power companies have the capacity to handle the growth does not validate your point...it validates you haven't done your homework.

Here's another link with actual data and facts. The "novelty" as you put it was reviewed by consumer reports:

Tesla Model S: 99/100 On Consumer Reports Test, Best Score Ever | CleanTechnica

This is the highest rated car in the history of cars - the demand for it so great, the stock has skyrockected and the projections show it dramatically increasing over the next 5 years. Calling it a novelty only validates your lack of knowledge in this area.

Enjoy your weekend as well, and if you have some time, do a little research and reading into what Uncle Sam is doing "behind the scenes" to increase EV usage...it's pretty impressive.

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As such, you validate my point... I hope you have a good weekend my friend.

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Old 06-22-2013, 01:42 PM   #14
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I'm with Eric on this one. Electric cars like the Tesla S are a novelty for the 2%'ers. Maybe this will change, maybe not. Its hard to predict the future.

My only additional comment on this subject is about battery manufacturing and battery recycling. I can't imagine a process that is more unfriendly to the environment. Maybe an open pit toxic waste dump - and that's only a maybe.

Anyone who talks about "clean battery recycling" has never actually visited such a facility. Every dangerous chemical has another equally dangerous chemical used to neutralize the first one. Then a third to neutralize the second. Yes, the process produces successively less toxic materials, but the byproducts are also still quite toxic.

The other approach is to throw the whole battery into an incinerator and cook it down to its elemental components. Good idea, except for the poisonous gases that cook off and have to be treated with .... more toxic chemicals.

This is the electric car's dirty secret that no one wants to talk about.
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Old 06-22-2013, 01:47 PM   #15
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There's nothing to predict -

Report: Tesla Expects To Sell 500,000 Cars, Europe Model S Demand Strong

This novelty has the greatest amount of pre-orders in the history of the known universe, is rated the greatest vehicle ever built by Consumer Reports, and is data takes all the guess work out of predicting the future.

The automotive reviewers and experts are calling it the most important car since the model T.

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I'm with Eric on this one. Electric cars like the Tesla S are a novelty for the 2%'ers. Maybe this will change, maybe not. Its hard to predict the future.
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Old 06-22-2013, 01:54 PM   #16
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Hey, we hear you. All I'm saying is that Fisker was supposed to sell a lot of cars too. And the Volt. And the Leaf.

Sales forecasts for electric cars have been proven wrong again and again. Maybe the Model S will break that mold. Maybe not. We'll have to wait and see.
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:04 PM   #17
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The fisker Consumer reports got broke down before they even took a lap. But the Volt and Leaf sales have seen steady increases -

Electric Vehicles & Electric Car Sales See Steady Increase | VIA Motors

The model S has already broken the mold - they are increasing the factory size and hiring US employers to keep up with demand.

500,000 units is a lotta cars.

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Hey, we hear you. All I'm saying is that Fisker was supposed to sell a lot of cars too. And the Volt. And the Leaf.

Sales forecasts for electric cars have been proven wrong again and again. Maybe the Model S will break that mold. Maybe not. We'll have to wait and see.

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Old 06-22-2013, 02:15 PM   #18
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.............

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Old 06-22-2013, 05:20 PM   #19
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Wait a second! Tesla forecasts 500,000 cars by 2025? Hardly a revolution - still more like a novelty.
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Old 06-22-2013, 05:28 PM   #20
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Wait a second! Tesla forecasts 500,000 cars by 2025? Hardly a revolution - still more like a novelty.
Where did you read that?

Electric is the future...period. All nay-sayers need to just get over it
That Tesla roadster will easily run laps around our cars...and it's only just beginning.
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