Tesla Model S Battery Swap Demonstration

[01SBox]

Well, it is the 4th, and this is a free country....but at least you gave up on the "battery recycling" and "electric pollutes more than gas" arguments!

Happy 4th!

Originally Posted by KRAM36

I'll stick with my Boxster, thank you.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

Well, it is the 4th, and this is a free country....but at least you gave up on the "battery recycling" and "electric pollutes more than gas" arguments!

Happy 4th!

I'm not hear to argue in the first place. I know electric cars are the future, but at least you stopped trying to insinuate that a Leaf would be as fun to drive as a 911.

Happy 4th!

[01SBox]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger, I didn't make the video comparing the two!!!

Now the Tesla S.....that might be a different story. 0-60 in 4.2 seconds...pretty sure that beats the 911?

Originally Posted by KRAM36

I'm not hear to argue in the first place. I know electric cars are the future, but at least you stopped trying to insinuate that a Leaf would be as fun to drive as a 911.

Happy 4th!

[KRAM36]

Same 0 to 60 as a base 911, but the base 911 is $4,000 less then the Model S, even after the $7,500 tax credit the Model S gets.

[01SBox]

You might want to double check your info.

2013 911 base 0-60 is 4.6 - here's the model lineup times

2013 Porsche 911 Carrera: Niello Porsche-Rocklin Porsche Dealer-Sacramento Porsche

You might also want to check your math.

Base 911 is 82,100, Tesla S Performance package is 87,400 (here's the site - Model S Options & Pricing | Tesla Motors) - 7500 federal tax credit, most states also have a 5,000 tax credit.

1k less (or 6k, depending on state) for a car that is .3 faster...we can all agree, that's utterly amazing, and built right here in the US of A!!!

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Same 0 to 60 as a base 911, but the base 911 is $4,000 less then the Model S, even after the $7,500 tax credit the Model S gets.

[KRAM36]

Sorry I thought you had 4.6 in your post.

The site shows me the Model S Performance is $88,570 in which that price includes a $7,500 tax credit.

Click on the cash button. Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors



So the Model S Performance price is actually $96, 070, which is still cheaper and quicker 0-60 then the 911 Carrera S 0-60 of 4.3s at $98,900. I'd still take the 911 Carrera S over the Tesla Model S, but that my take on those two. If I was going to buy an American car in this price range, it would be the new Corvette Stingray.

[01SBox]

Oh dear lord, whatever you do, don't buy a Vette. Junk, just plain junk...no way around it. A porsche is like cutting butter with a hot razor...my '10 vette was like smashing potatoes with a sledgehammer - totally unrefined. And it broke just as much as consumer reports said it would.

your link also says the Tesla S might have from 7500 to 15000 tax incentives - which could bring the faster Tesla S in around 81000...or about 1k less than a 911!!!

Originally Posted by KRAM36

If I was going to buy an American car in this price range, it would be the new Corvette Stingray.

[KRAM36]

I could see that with a C5, but a C6?

C6 Reliability - Corvette Forum

[01SBox]

Not to belittle the Corvette message board fellas, but I have 2009 Consumer Reports in my hands. On page 82 it lists the corvette as "Used cars to avoid" In it's description of the new model, it ranks it a black dot (the lowest mark possible) for reliability.

My online version of consumer reports rates the 2013 as half a black circle (second from lowest rating). For 2012, it received a black dot.

I didn't mind it breaking, but the worst was having to fight Chevy to cover warranty items. Could not sell it fast enough..go test drive a base '13 911, then a '13 Zr1/z06...yup, a lot faster, but what a difference in build quality.

Originally Posted by KRAM36

I could see that with a C5, but a C6?

C6 Reliability - Corvette Forum

[KRAM36]

I've never let Consumer Reports make my purchasing decisions for me... bias.

[01SBox]

Bias? Really? That's the first I've heard of that...they are one of the only magazines that doesn't make money from advertisers...in-fact, most consumer experts consider Consumer Reports the most un-biased magazine ever.

I won't call it the Bible, but it's a lot smarter then making a decision based on a message forum, no?

Originally Posted by KRAM36

I've never let Consumer Reports make my purchasing decisions for me... bias.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

Bias? Really? That's the first I've heard of that...they are one of the only magazines that doesn't make money from advertisers...in-fact, most consumer experts consider Consumer Reports the most un-biased magazine ever.

I won't call it the Bible, but it's a lot smarter then making a decision based on a message forum, no?

You're kidding right? You've never heard that before? No I will not make a purchased based off Consumer Reports.

[01SBox]

Kram, you do understand that Consumer Reports only complies the reliability data, and the data is taken directly from car owners who are mailed confidential surveys? You did know that, right?

Maybe you could suggest another magazine or news source that compiles data in the same way, that doesn't take money from Advertisers, and is a non-profit?

Of all the funny things said so far in this thread (and there have been some good ones) relying on a internet forum to make your car buying decision over the "biased" data collecting of Consumer Reports is high on the list!!

Originally Posted by KRAM36

You're kidding right? You've never heard that before? No I will not make a purchased based off Consumer Reports.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

Kram, you do understand that Consumer Reports only complies the reliability data, and the data is taken directly from car owners who are mailed confidential surveys? You did know that, right?

Maybe you could suggest another magazine or news source that compiles data in the same way, that doesn't take money from Advertisers, and is a non-profit?

Of all the funny things said so far in this thread (and there have been some good ones) relying on a internet forum to make your car buying decision over the "biased" data collecting of Consumer Reports is high on the list!!

Have a read.

Statistical problems of Consumer Reports auto ratings

and I never said to base a purchase from an internet forum. If had done that I wouldn't own a 2003 Boxster because of all the IMSB failure posts around here, when it's probably a 2% issue in these cars?

[01SBox]

Kram, the site you sent me is from allpar - Chrysler, Dodge, Ram Jeep - all of which are some of the lowest rated cars on Consumer Reports. You do understand that car companies literally hire writers and pay them for stories like this, right? Need proof?

Here's one for you....from the #1 consumer advocate in the US, Clark Howard (on the folly of using internet forums for product reviews!!) http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clark-howard/shopping-retail/be-wary-blogger-reviews-products/nPgHR/

CNN, MSN, a national organization of 280 Consumer Advocate Specialists, and the most honest consumer advocates in the United States all point to Consumer Reports as the most respected, trusted, unbiased magazine in the US.

I personally don't think it's the bible, but you'd have to be very foolish not to use it as a tool in your decision making process, don't you think?

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Have a read.

Statistical problems of Consumer Reports auto ratings

and I never said to base a purchase from an internet forum. If had done that I wouldn't own a 2003 Boxster because of all the IMSB failure posts around here, when it's probably a 2% issue in these cars?

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

Kram, the site you sent me is from allpar - Chrysler, Dodge, Ram Jeep - all of which are some of the lowest rated cars on Consumer Reports.

CNN, MSN, a national organization of 280 Consumer Advocate Specialists, and the most honest consumer advocates in the United States all point to Consumer Reports as the most respected, trusted, unbiased magazine in the US.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but the reliability ratings are from the car owners themselves...you'd have to say the car owners are the ones with the bias. Again, you realize Consumer Reports only collects the data, right?

I personally don't think it's the bible, but you'd have to be very foolish not to use it as a tool in your decision making process, don't you think?

I see you made a bias decision about that website calling them bias just because of their website vehicle content. Did you fact check them on their info?

You acted like nobody had ever said a thing about CR being bias. I'm not the first, won't be the last.

Again, no I will not make a vehicle purchase decision based on Consumer Reports. You do whatever you want on making your purchasing decisions, doesn't matter to me.

[01SBox]

I hear ya, I was just like you. I refused to do the research, because I thunk, heck, that Vette is nice, what could go wrong? I learned the hard way...and the consumer reports view was spot on.

But certainly, no one can force you to listen to someone like Clark Howard, or CNN, or MSN, or even Consumer Reports - clearly you have devised a "more educated" system of determining a vehicles reliability...One would have to be mighty foolish (like I was) not to at least read it, and make a more educated decision before you made a major purchase. That's all in the realm of common sense, don't you think?

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Again, no I will not make a vehicle purchase decision based on Consumer Reports. You do whatever you want on making your purchasing decisions, doesn't matter to me.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

I hear ya, I was just like you. I refused to do the research, because I thunk, heck, that Vette is nice, what could go wrong? I learned the hard way...and the consumer reports view was spot on.

But certainly, no one can force you to listen to someone like Clark Howard, or CNN, or MSN, or even Consumer Reports - clearly you have devised a "more educated" system of determining a vehicles reliability...One would have to be mighty foolish (like I was) not to at least read it, and make a more educated decision before you made a major purchase. That's all in the realm of common sense, don't you think?

Why do you keep asking me the same question at the end of your post?

No I will not use Consumer Reports. I think it's crap.

Maybe this will blow your mind even more. This is the first time I've head the name Clark Howard. CNN and MSN lean directions and feed people with agendas they want pushed. So what they recommend bears nothing to me.

I'm not mindless, don't need to be told how to spend my money or what to buy with it.

[01SBox]

No, that doesn't blow my mind....I can assure you, I've never "head" the name Clark Howard either!!!!. We can agree to disagree. I personally think it is mindless to not factor every piece of information into a decision that can cost 80k...and so do all the experts and consumer advocates. There is no such thing as exposing yourself to too much information, even if you question the source - especially when it comes directly from the owners. But if you think having less is better, more power to you!

I personally hope (if you get one), that you get a good one, with miles of trouble free driving!

Originally Posted by KRAM36

Why do you keep asking me the same question at the end of your post?

No I will not use Consumer Reports. I think it's crap.

Maybe this will blow your mind even more. This is the first time I've head the name Clark Howard. CNN and MSN lean directions and feed people with agendas they want pushed. So what they recommend bears nothing to me.

I'm not mindless, don't need to be told how to spend my money or what to buy with it.

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

No, that doesn't blow my mind....I can assure you, I've never "head" the name Clark Howard either!!!!. We can agree to disagree. I personally think it is mindless to not factor every piece of information into a decision that can cost 80k...and so do all the experts and consumer advocates. There is no such thing as exposing yourself to too much information, even if you question the source - especially when it comes directly from the owners. But if you think having less is better, more power to you!

I personally hope (if you get one), that you get a good one, with miles of trouble free driving!

You did gather I meant heard, not head? You could figure that one out on your own, right?

To be honest, I did zero checking into Boxsters before I bought mine. It's used, it's 10 years old. I expect to have issues with it, just hope it's not an IMSB failure lol.

If I wanted to use rankings by the owners. I'd use JD Power for the info.

I'd buy a C6 Vette, no matter what you or CR says about them.