Need help pulling the trigger

[Nickanator8]

Hello everyone! My name is Nick, I'm 28 years old, and I've always wanted a Porsche. I've known about the 986 Boxster for years but I finally have the space and money to make a fun car a part of my life and I want to make sure I do it properly. I've dedicated hours upon hours to every video, article, and guide I can find about the 986 in the hopes that I can find the best one for my needs. I've come to the conclusion that a Boxster S with a manual transmission has to be the one I get which does limit my options a bit. There aren't too many in my area and I want to test drive the car before throwing cash at it.

I have a few concerns I want to run by the community so I can move forward with confidence. First off, all the cars in my area are pretty high mileage and the Boxster I am specifically looking at is sitting at 127k. I'm not afraid of high mileage per se, my last car finally died at 270k but it was a Hyundai Accent econobox, just not a German sports car. My concern is what are all the maintenance items I should make sure are either done before I buy it or right after the purchase and what might those items cost? I'm not afraid to turn a wrench, but I also don't have much experience and I'd like to actually drive my new car instead of immediately tear it apart.

Most of the guides I have found on this forum were written a while ago and I just want to make sure I'm looking for issues that matter for buyers today instead of when they had 80k less miles on the clock.

Besides that, any best practices for doing a PPI myself would be appreciated. I'm really hoping I can save as much money as possible by doing as much work as I can by myself.

The vehicle I am looking at is a 2002 Boxster S with 127k miles, black on black with chrome wheels that will absolutely need to be swapped out for something more subtle (suggestions?). It was originally a fleet vehicle in Chicago and has bounced around a few states with 4 prior owners. I saw on the Carfax that the title may have been washed in 2013 (previously owned in Kansas then titled in Washington for 2 years with only 200 more miles on it then back to Kansas in 2015) and it has only put on 4k miles since then so I'm a little concerned about that. Should I be?

It is currently for sale by a local dealer for $12,337 and has been listed for sale for a while. What kind of leverage can I put on the dealer to make sure I don't leave any money on the table when I do buy it? Unfortunately I don't have 12k lying around so I will be financing, ideally a 36 month plan to keep interest low.

Any suggestions, tips, or concerns are welcome. I'm very excited to join the Porsche cult.

One aside, there is another Boxster in town, a 1998 base model with 120k on the clock and a broken soft top. It's for sale for $5,750 and I'm wondering if it's worth considering that model instead. It's half the price and 4/5ths the car so I'm wondering if that might be a good idea or a good way to light $6k on fire. Thoughts?

I'll try to answer questions and clarify my situation as needed.

[Radman]

Is this a daily driver or unneeded fun car?

[Ciao]

Make an offer of $9000 to dealer based on miles, age. Check if IMS bearing has been replaced with records showing it has. Get a PPI to find all trouble spots; pay for it, it's worth it and gives you a better health record of the P car as a potential owner and what all you'll need to fix/update. Forget the base model.

[Wallace River]

Just posted today........
http://986forum.com/forums/boxsters-cayman-cars-sale-wanted/79274-sale-2001-boxster-s-black-107k-miles-manual-trans-will-also-trade.html

[Nickanator8]

Originally Posted by Radman

Is this a daily driver or unneeded fun car?

This is going to be a dedicated fun car. I have a Ford Focus as a daily. I plan to use the Boxster primarily as a fun weekend car, stuff like heading out into the mountains. I suspect I will eventually dabble in autocross and/or track days, but those will come down the line.

Originally Posted by Ciao

Make an offer of $9000 to dealer based on miles, age. Check if IMS bearing has been replaced with records showing it has. Get a PPI to find all trouble spots; pay for it, it's worth it and gives you a better health record of the P car as a potential owner and what all you'll need to fix/update. Forget the base model.

I probably should just pay for a professional PPI, but tbh if the car has 127k on the clock I feel like the IMS issue would have presented itself by now. My understanding is that the percentage of vehicles affected by the IMS issue is a bit exaggerated.

Originally Posted by Wallace River

Just posted today........
http://986forum.com/forums/boxsters-cayman-cars-sale-wanted/79274-sale-2001-boxster-s-black-107k-miles-manual-trans-will-also-trade.html

As nice as that example looks, I will be financing the car as I don't have $10k sitting in the bank right now. I doubt I could arrange a monthly payment schedule with a private party a state away.

[78F350]

Hi Nick, mind if I ramble a bit?

PPI: I have never paid for a PPI. I have bought over a dozen 986s - most (but not all) of which were running cars. I have replaced IMS bearings, brake boosters, window regulators, coolant tanks, and a few air-oil separators. I know that there are still things that I will miss or overlook when I go to buy a Boxster. For me, that's okay. I'm paying with cash and I fix them for recreation. If I was financing a car (20+ year old sports car) and did not have the reserve to repair it in a worst case scenario, I would gladly pay a reputable Porsche shop to do a PPI. At least print up a good checklist and bring someone along whose only job is to talk you out of the purchase.

By the time they reach this age, the condition of a 986 can vary widely not just based on mileage and year, but by how it was cared for. It is possible that a 180k mile 1998 is in better condition than a 2003 with 90k miles on it. If you are buying from a typical used car dealer, there will probably not be much detailed history of how the car was cared for. If you buy from an individual that was an 'enthusiast', you may hear more details and stories than you want. Consider arranging your financing before finding the right car from a place like https://www.penfed.org/auto/ . That may open up your market to a wider range of cars.

You mention that you are willing to do some wrenching on the car. That's good. Replacing an item such as a water pump may cost $1,000 at a dealership. You can do it yourself for under $200. ...but also consider that you could do it incorrectly and end up needing to have your car towed to a shop to be done right. Learn on the easy jobs before you take on more complicated ones. Know that you will need tools, a place to work, and some knowledge. These cars are not particularly hard to work on, but they are different from your typical Hyundai or Ford.

The IMS bearing problem is exaggerated. ..and it is very real. There is no magic number of miles that means yours will never fail. Consider it to be a maintenance item to be replaced with the clutch, or get an 'IMS solution' and be done with it. There are still plenty of things that will kill an engine - broken rod bolts, head cracks, water pump failure.... Maintenance is important, but sometimes any 20 year old car will decide to fail. Don't expect it, but know that it's a possibility.

Everything that you need to know has probably been discussed at least a few times on this forum and others. In most cases you can find contradictory info if you look hard enough. Also, if you look hard enough you can figure out what is BS and what is fact.

Good luck

[Cunningr]

Hope you dont take this wrong as I do not know your finances ect... But you stated you will need to finance a portion of the car. As already mentioned many things can/will need to be repaired and maintained. So a question you might want to ask yourself are you truly financially ready to add a big expensive toy to your garage.

If you decide to get you one, enjoy they are fun and follow the advice already given.

[mreigie1]

If you are considering a black on black 2002 Boxter S with a ground effects kit and an aftermarket muffler and the dealer that is a private (Non Dealership)sales lot who claim to sell "Sharp" vehicles. DO NOT DO IT.
I looked at that car the week after Christmas and was asked if I wanted to drive and I said let's begin with a simple start up. Always act indifferent about any particular car with the salesperson. Turned the key and nothing, ok dead battery, not a deal killer and was told it's been a while since it's been started (clue). They got a jump box and I turned the key and the engine lit but the first 3-4 seconds they was a nasty loud rattle-grind sound from the engine. I let it idle for a minute and tried to advance the throttle and the tach dove toward "0". Anyway I cant be sure but would not be a bit surprised to hear that's what an IMS bearing sounds in the early stages of failure. And as most of the lubrication had drained away from the bearing.
We live in the same area and you may have seen a base model in Vail for 14.9K and so he got 11K. Amazing shape 69K on the clock, still overpriced for the year/model but amazingly clean.
Good Luck and do your homework, it pays off...

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by mreigie1

If you are considering a black on black 2002 Boxter S with a ground effects kit and an aftermarket muffler and the dealer that is a private (Non Dealership)sales lot who claim to sell "Sharp" vehicles. DO NOT DO IT.
I looked at that car the week after Christmas and was asked if I wanted to drive and I said let's begin with a simple start up. Always act indifferent about any particular car with the salesperson. Turned the key and nothing, ok dead battery, not a deal killer and was told it's been a while since it's been started (clue). They got a jump box and I turned the key and the engine lit but the first 3-4 seconds they was a nasty loud rattle-grind sound from the engine. I let it idle for a minute and tried to advance the throttle and the tach dove toward "0". Anyway I cant be sure but would not be a bit surprised to hear that's what an IMS bearing sounds in the early stages of failure. And as most of the lubrication had drained away from the bearing.
We live in the same area and you may have seen a base model in Vail for 14.9K and so he got 11K. Amazing shape 69K on the clock, still overpriced for the year/model but amazingly clean.
Good Luck and do your homework, it pays off...

Can you point me to actual articles, posts, or facts that suggest that noise reveals the IMS is going north? Everything I've read suggest that that part just facking explodes... fails... kaput and without warning.

I would suggest the buyer interested in the car look at the starter motor... as that could be the sound of XXXX grinding.

$.02

[mreigie1]

https://www.revolution-porsche.co.uk/news/ims-bearing-failure-symptoms-and-how-to-spot-them
This article and look under "symptoms" suggests a quest for metal flake or black plastic in your filter when changing your oil and in fact when I called a Porsche dealer to ask some simple questions I of course brought up the IMS and she said that they look for the same when the filter is changed as an early indicator. Not sure how many components involve black plastic as yes the metal can be from a number of other expensive places. I'm just looking at the odds. And very possible the vast majority do just "grenade" a lot of people like to disregard little noises at start up as long as they fade away. Every one of those little noises have a story to tell, some benign some not so much. I had the starter/flywheel thought as my initial hope and you know it may be just that but the cost difference alone between a starter and possibly a flywheel and an IMS adventure made that little voice in the back of my head say "done", at least for then. No, bottom line have a professional perform an inspection. This shop is not opposed to an inspection they just need to send their salesperson along and please choose the shop, don't them lead you to any particular establishment. It is a pretty car...Been there a long time, usually a reason. Regards. -Mike
P.S. I am still receiving ads, price drops etc from...well everyone. If I spot something worth looking at given we live in the same place I can give you a shout if you'd like.

[n4th4n]

Hi!

I've just joined the forum and a very newly Boxster owner (2004 Boxster S) having purchased one a couple of weeks ago.

Just thought I'd post this here as it may be some help - I put together a checklist when I was researching from various sources and looking at various cars and hopefully, it will give you something to go through when you compare the dealer car and the cheaper local one.

Maintenance costs are in £GBP as I'm in UK.

It really helped me as I was stung with a first purchase that ended up having to be returned to the dealer due to a major fault. The latest one just passed its post-purchase inspection with flying colours PHEW!


986 Checklist
Service Schedule
• Every 5,000 miles – Oil and filter change (as recently recommended by experts)
• 12,000 – engine oil and cabin filter (minor)
• 24,000 – Engine oil and filter, cabin filter, air filter (major)
• 36,000 – Minor
• 48,000 – Major + fuel filter + serpentine belt, brake discs, clutch, ignition coils, IMS bearing, rear main seal, coolant
• 96,000 – 48k + Fuel filter, serpentine belt, transmission fluid, transmission filter, suspension arms/bushes, shocks, oil air separator
• Every 2 years – Brake fluid
• Every 4 years - Spark Plugs

NOT ALL OF THESE ITEMS WILL NEED REPLACING - SOME JUST CHECKING


Garage Maintenance Costs
• Fuel filter - £150
• Serpentine belt - £150
• Spark plugs - £150
• Coolant - £250
• Brake discs - £600
• Igniition coils - £500
• Clutch, IMS and RMS - £1,400
• Tyres - £500
• Oil air seperator - £200
• Water pump - £300
• Alternator - £500
• Transmission fluid and filter - £300
• Suspension arms/bushes - £900
• Shocks (4) - £1,500
• Differential fluid (automatic) - £250


Checklist

Exterior visual check
• Walk around the car and check for rust, damage, etc.
• Headlights – check for cracks, brown or burning spots
• Front bumber – no cracks or damage or discolouration
• Tyres – Check for cracks, tread and age
• Wheels – check for excessive damage
• Sides – Check for damage, discolouration and check panel gaps
• Rear bumper- Check for cracks, damage or discolouration
• Tailights – Check for cracks or damage
• Third brake light – check for cracks or damage
• Rear – check for panel gaps and ensure they are even
• Front windscreen – check for cracks, large chips
• Knock on exhaust and check sound
• Check suspension springs for corrosion and damage
• Check brake discs and pads
• Check callipers

Interior
• Check door panels – no delamination or pulling away. Check door handles and storage boxes work
• Check seats to ensure no major rips
• Check behind seats for damage
• Check carpet behind seats for damage and dampness
• Check for missing headrest filters
• Check for missing centre wind deflector
• Pull up carpet behind seats and check for dampness
• Check lights – ensure they all come on in keys first position
• Check oil level to ensure between min and max and not overfull
• If warm – check passenger side fan comes on
• Check hazard lights
• Check radio works with all speakers (including rear speakers if present)
• Check climate control or air con works
• Check front radiator fans are working – both sides and one in middle for S model
(run hand under bumper)
• Check radiators by front bumper – check for debris and for any rust or leaks
• Check windows open and close with no excessive creaking or delay
• Check windows open and close automatically when opening doors
• Check handbrake for excessive play or noises
• Check heated seats work if present
• Check glovebox if present
• Check front carpets
• Rear plastic window check for cloudiness and marks (if plastic)
• Start engine and check for smooth starting and no “subaru” sound or jumping or
knocking or tapping
• Check mirrors adjust
• Check seats electronically adjust
• Check seats slide forward and back
• Check wipers and washer fluid
• Check obc (on board computer) (if present)
• Check indicators
• Check headlights
• Check brake lights
• Check cup holders (if present)
• Check both trunk buttons work
• Check rear spoiler button works

Trunks
• FRONT
o Check front struts
o Check spare wheel
o Check brake fluid
o Check battery
o See if hood sticker is correct and check paint matches bumpers o Check tool kit –
• REAR
o Check rear boot struts
o Check coolant tank level (if bottle is bright white probably been replaced recently)
o Check boot carpet for dampness and check bottle for cracks o Check under oil cap and coolant cap for mayo type substance

Roof
• Lower roof and raise roof twice
• Check for smooth motion
• Check roof sits flush when open and closed – no warning lights
• Listen for loud popping noise when raising and lowering room
• Check for rips, tears or damage (small amount of mold is common)

Engine Bay
• Check engine bay for missing covers/carpet
• Check drainage channels are clear and dry

Test Drive
• Wait until up to 80 degrees Celsius before going over 3.5k revs
• Listen for creaking and clonking in suspension during test drive
• Acceleration should be prompt
• Gearbox should be light and gear changes smooth
• Clutch should be lightish

OBD Test
• Diagnostic codes
• History
• Check emissions
• Check voltage

Paperwork Check
• Service history should be fairly thorough for a well looked after car
• Water pumps, clutches, exhausts, intermediate shaft, IMS, flywheels, etc. are all
common parts to replace in 986’s
• History of recent IMS replacement is a bonus but not mandatory