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Old 01-30-2021, 11:31 PM   #1
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Progress update and a few questions

Been continuing with the conversion to race car, and today it was removing the rest of the carpet inside and the center console. Since I still have the power windows in the car, I relocated the power window switches to two empty blanks I had left of the HVAC system (below TC off). Passenger seat came out as well. Pics of the progress below, including of the newly relocated power window switches

I had a couple questions for next steps. My new Futura trailer should be coming soon (been getting delayed for a few weeks, hope there are no more delays) and I'm planning on getting a full cage welded in at some point soon (hopefully in the next couple months). Trying to figure out what I can safely remove before the cage, and what I should really wait until I have cage to remove.

My original plan was to pull the dash so I can get to the rest of the wiring looms and start pulling wires. I've already removed the stereo, but all the speaker wire, wire to the cd changer & amp, etc... along with wires for the seats (which are no longer there) and even the heated seats, spoiler, defrosters, and convertible top can all be removed. I'm planning on removing the A/C unit and components (need to go get the system discharged first) and possibly the heater, though I'm tempted to leave front windshield defrost for emergencies. Airbags & door trim are high on my list, but I don't feel great about removing airbags until I have cage + HANS + harness in the car. What are people's thoughts on harness + HANS, but without a full cage? Safe to remove airbags, or really should wait until the cage is in first? Currently I'm still running OEM 3-point seat belt on track because I still have airbags.






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Old 01-31-2021, 04:33 AM   #2
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At this point I would work in gutting everything down to sheet metal, core drivetrain, minimal wiring, and safety equipment. After you get your 6 point installed (before or after the cage) then I would feel safe removing airbags. The car already has an impressive rollover resiliency, which is why I wouldn't necessarily wait for the cage to do that step. 6 pt is a must though.

Gutting creature comforts (door cards, windows, trim, dash, top motor, hvac) will give you impressive weight loss. Don't forget to go after the emissions equipment too (evap system, sai delete, and a new exhaust system) as there is a lot of weight too.

Guys get pretty extreme with this, going so far as to even removing the passenger windshield wiper lol. There are plenty of posts in here about it.

If this is your first go with the wiring, cut them one at a time (or at least just a few at a time) and then make sure she still turns over. That way you don't have to sort through 100 cut wires to figure out which one to splice back together.

Understand that you will inevitably run into CELs with this setup so be prepared for your prerace ritual to check all dtcs. Remember that if a fatal DTC is thrown the CEL actually blinks at you so as long as that isn't happening you're probably fine.

Btw, can I have dibs on your steering wheel when/if it comes out?



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Old 01-31-2021, 08:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ike84 View Post
At this point I would work in gutting everything down to sheet metal, core drivetrain, minimal wiring, and safety equipment. After you get your 6 point installed (before or after the cage) then I would feel safe removing airbags. The car already has an impressive rollover resiliency, which is why I wouldn't necessarily wait for the cage to do that step. 6 pt is a must though.

Gutting creature comforts (door cards, windows, trim, dash, top motor, hvac) will give you impressive weight loss. Don't forget to go after the emissions equipment too (evap system, sai delete, and a new exhaust system) as there is a lot of weight too.

Guys get pretty extreme with this, going so far as to even removing the passenger windshield wiper lol. There are plenty of posts in here about it.

If this is your first go with the wiring, cut them one at a time (or at least just a few at a time) and then make sure she still turns over. That way you don't have to sort through 100 cut wires to figure out which one to splice back together.

Understand that you will inevitably run into CELs with this setup so be prepared for your prerace ritual to check all dtcs. Remember that if a fatal DTC is thrown the CEL actually blinks at you so as long as that isn't happening you're probably fine.

Btw, can I have dibs on your steering wheel when/if it comes out?



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Thanks, that's awesome info. Yes, this will be my first time pulling looms. I've seen photos of what I'm in for when the dash comes off. Looks like a spaghetti monster is going to throw up in my car. I will be setting aside a lot of time for this, and hope my patience is up to the task

I have someone else interested in the wheel already, but if that falls through it's yours.

I plan on keeping wipers in case we pick up light rain during a track day, but what about A/C and heater core? I was intending on removing both but I've been wondering about whether I want to retain any defrost capabilitiy or not. Does the defrost on these cars use heat or cold air? I think I remember it blasting heat. normally for track days, we run with windows down, so I doubt fogging of the windhshield will be an issue, and when it pours hard enough to ask us to pull windows up, I'm probably going to have to retire the day anyways as the car isn't really all that waterproof anymore Should I just pull both A/C and heater core and just keep wipers? Does anyone make a heater core bypass for the coolant lines?
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Old 01-31-2021, 08:19 PM   #4
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While we're at it, another question about what can be removed:

I already replaced rear muffler to save weight, but I haven't yet pulled the cats (either primary or secondary). If I replace all that with a race system, do I need to retain O2 sensors or is that just for emissions? I think it's used for driving air/fuel ratio, so should be looking for race exhaust systems that still have O2 connections? Or is A/F only driven by MAF?

I hadn't thought of evap & SAI delete, will have to add those to my project list to go after. Is there any blocking off of or rerouting needed? ie. do I need additional parts to replace with or can I strictly just remove parts?
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Old 02-01-2021, 08:01 AM   #5
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In terms of the hvac and defrost I would pull all of it. If you remove all the engine bay insulation your cockpit will be warm enough that I don't think you will have an issue.

The sai delete can be done two ways, either remove pump and block of the tubing, or to remove all the associated tubing. The latter will require block off plates, either homemade or they can be purchased from pelican.

Evap delete requires managing the vent lines from the tank and fill neck, either to atmosphere at the wheel well or back into the purge valve housing. Whether you also pull the purge valve will help you make that decision.

Our cars have two separate operating conditions, open loop and closed loop. Closed loop requires afr readings from the precat sensors. Open loop relies solely on maf readings. Open loop only happens at high load and wot, so you need the precat sensors installed. Every aftermarket header I've seen for our cars has at least one set of sensor bungs in place though so it's not an issue. The postcat sensors are for emissions monitoring. A lot of guys will just not mount the sensor and ziptie it out of the way, thereby monitoring atmospheric conditions and tricking the system into thinking the cats are working. You can also buy sensor spacers with mini cats built into the spacer that will fool the sensor. On the other hand, If you flash to a row tune those sensors can be completely removed without a CEL coming on. If you get aftermarket headers I would get the double-bung models so that you can mount an EGT sensor and wideband O2 sensor for tuning purposes (if you're into that sort of thing)

Please remember that the stuff I'm talking about here are major emissions violations and your car will no longer be road legal and there's no chance of passing inspection if your state utilizes obd2 or sniff testing.

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Old 02-01-2021, 08:33 AM   #6
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Thanks for the detailed info. Totally understood about the emissions thing, as soon as my trailer arrives the car won't be road driven anymore.
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Old 02-02-2021, 04:27 AM   #7
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I say remove all the airbags. Speed #1 Safety #2. At a minimum you can at least remove the passenger airbags. I also recommend getting a ROW tune if you can. Not only does it turn off the SAI, it also lets you start the car without engaging the clutch.
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Old 02-02-2021, 03:24 PM   #8
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Double post.

Last edited by robdelorenzo; 02-02-2021 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 02-02-2021, 03:26 PM   #9
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I am always impressed with the wealth of knowledge about these cars on here. You guys know EVERY detail about these cars and are very helpful. Thank you.
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Old 02-03-2021, 07:50 AM   #10
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Definitely, really appreciate all the knowledge shared on this site.

I've seen this question asked a few times but the answers are still not really clear for me: What do most spec boxsters do for removing the frunk/trunk latches & pulls from the driver door areas? Not that my car is official spec since it's an S, but in general I'm taking inspiration from SPB for my build.

The two main options I see are to just cut the cable short closer to the frunk/trunk and create a pull loop, exposing it somewhere nearby (maybe headlight or taillight area, our out from grill in the bumper or something). This would retain the factory latch system.

The other option I see is hood pins/latches. I see a lot of Aerolatches on the SPBs. With these, I see a lot of debate on whether to also still keep the factory hood latch (seems like that wouldn't solve the problem of wanting to clear out cabling & latches from interior unless you also combined with the first option above) or some people say just run the hood pins by themselves. Others say that's dangerous and they aren't as reliable as factory latch.

Thoughts? Curious what most of you guys who only race your cars do. My car will no longer be street legal or street driven after this month anyways so not worried about street use cases, only pure track/race.
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Old 02-03-2021, 11:40 AM   #11
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For frunk/trunk, most SPBs use traditional hood pins or Aerocatch. Personally, I have yet to do so; the factory latch works (I guess the question would be the weight if that small amount matters.) For using the factory latch without the stock interior latch releases, as you described you can just cut the release cable to length and make a pull loop at the end, with the length set to make the pull loop stick out at the edge of the lid, and a cable clamp or two to hold it in place. Heat shrink or plasti-dip on the loop is good.

See attached photos of how it ended up on my car. (I did not do this work myself.) In my opinion, if you install hood pins or Aerocatch, you can get rid of the stock latch -- the stock latch works as a primary without backup; it doesn't make sense to me for it to *be* a backup.

For door pulls, a similar thing is typically used. Just take the door pull cable, fashion some kind of loop/pull at a useful length end point, and use a cable clamp to hold the end in place. An alternative I've seen is to attach the forward end of the pull cable to the door, and then you would pull on the middle of the cable, which would have the effect of pulling on the latch end to release the latch.

I suppose if had my wish, Aerocatches would appear on my car one day and the factory latches removed. Low priority.

Frunk:


Trunk:


The sort of cable guide I'm talking about:
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Old 02-03-2021, 11:47 AM   #12
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Perfect, that's the kind of straightforward answer I was looking for. I think that looks totally fine and I'm not overly obsessed with removing the tiny bit of weight in the latch itself.

Thanks

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