Anyone with experience with older 911s?

[David_J]

I'm looking at picking up an older 911 SC as a second Porsche. Does anyone have much experience with them? Is there anything I need to look out for? My wife wants to buy me an older one as a project car. I found a 1982 with about 130k miles. It does have some visible wear, buy what do you expect for a 25 year old car. All the interior panels can be purchased new to update the interior. The car drove great, but man is it way different than the Boxster. Clutch feels like an old VW bug.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
David

[Rob-00BoxsterS]

David,

I have an 82 911. Here are a few things I can think of off the top of my head:

Even if the AC is working properly, it sucks.

Expect oil leaks no matter what and a little puff of smoke at start up is nothing to worry about.

The car is small. I'm not that big of a guy (6'1" 210lbs) and I am very uncomfortable in the car when I have a helmet on. Also, if I have a friend in the car that is about my size, our shoulders just about touch.

The car is fun but since I got the Box in Dec., I haven't really wanted to drive the 911. That's not a knock on the SC, I just think the Boxster is that good.

The only thing the SC has over the Box is that it is much more photogenic:

[blinkwatt]

Damn those are some nice pics.

[David_J]

There's just something about the older 911s that I love. I know my Boxster will walk all over it, but I would be getting it more for a project and the fact that I've always wanted one. At some point in time, I might make it into a dedicated track car, or I might just restore it back to the way it should be.

I have other cars that I drive, so I wouldn't be too concerned about the AC issue. I heard that from someone else too. And the same goes for the oil leak. I heard it's very rare to find one without a leak.

Like I said before, it's a 25 year old car, but a nice looking one.

Thanks for the input.

-David

Ive always liked older 911's as well, someday I hope to get one and turn it into a race car. Stripped interior, engine swap (maybe a 993 turbo), race suspension, seats, roll bar. You know, the coolest thing ever.

[FrayAdjacent]

My project car is a 69 911... a little bit older than the SC, tho!

[C5150]

Two of my buddies went the old 911 avenue. What I've learned through them is to buy the nicest one you can afford, cause the parts will simply eat you alive. You don't want to spend all your dough on the cost of the car though - so that you have money to spend on repairs that you WILL have - but the better condition you can afford, the less headaches in the end.

SC buys are the best in my opinion for great ROI. The usual PPI from a reputable shop with air-cooled experience is a must of course. All older 911s "bleed." So a clean garage floor is rare.

Advice I do know that could help you is when test driving, listen for a thud thud kind of sound. I believe that a large issue in many of the older SCs is that the bottom studs that hold the cylinder head on tend to break. Something like a $15K repair I think...

Good luck!

- C

[der Geist]

Originally Posted by FrayAdjacent

My project car is a 69 911... a little bit older than the SC, tho!

Mine too! 69 911T with 40K original miles. I might have the 2 liter banging away this week with a little luck.

You may want to check the Pelican Parts board and renntech.org for a wealth of older 911 info. I have a friend in LA who owns a number of 911's and he likes to buy them from private owners through the Pelican board.

[Bob O]

I sold my 79 a couple of years ago. Here are a few things to look for, and be wary of:

If you haven't driven one, you're in for a surprise when you try to shift it. The throw from 1st to 2nd and 3d to 4th is about 12 miles. A short shift kit will help, but its still a longish throw AND it will be much more difficult to engage the gears with the short shifter.

Look closely around the door striker plate and on the door sill for rust. Unless its been fixed, there more than likely will be some, and you need to look further to see how much there is. This could be a safety issue if its gotten very far.

As was said below, it's gonna leak. Put cat litter on the floor under the engine and forget about it. The oil lines running to the front coolers tend to leak. IIRC, they're around $200 or so for the lines. When the clutch starts to slip (and it will, especially on a car with 130K miles on it) you can start attacking the oil line fittings, gaskets etc etc. while the engine is out.

I found that most parts for it aren't THAT expensive. There are tons of parts available for almost every system on the car. Shop around and you can find pretty good deals on them.

The ac sucks majorly. Even with the new rotary compressor it still sucks. And plan on topping off the freon yearly, or bi annually at least. The condenser for the ac is mounted to the engine cover (on the 79 anyway). Mine developed leaks in the lines to the compressor from the opening/closing of the "bonnet" , among other places (actually that's not bad for rubber lines that are over 25 years old)

On the good side. It WAS fun to drive. The repairs, if you diy, aren't too bad. And, as was said below, it was pretty photogenic. Unfortunately, all the pics of the 79 are on the other computer.. the one with the virus that can't be cured. damm

As was also said below, buy the best one you can find, same as the advise for buying a Boxster. Get a PPI done by someone who knows air cooled engines. Have fun with it!

Bob

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by Bob O

Unfortunately, all the pics of the 79 are on the other computer.. the one with the virus that can't be cured.

That must have been the Windows machine, right? I can't remember the last time I had a virus on my Mac.

[David_J]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. The first car I was looking at sold today.

The second one I found sold before they called me back.

So now I'm back to square one trying to find a car. Looks like I'll keep on looking.

-David

[Dohertycm]

C5150, I have a 74 911 (see picture)....I am here to tell you that 90 percent of the money I have spent on my car is because I wanted different upgrades not because i had to spend the money to get the car running. Mine starts first time everytime I touch the starter, and I paid only 8 grand for the car.

As far as parts go, they are really not bad at all, infact the alternator was cheaper than my ford trucks alternator. They really are cheap compared to a boxster ( I have a 2000 S also).

Now that I have a Boxster, I see that just the service on the car will far exceed the service on my 911.

But, DAVID J, everyone is right, first figure out exactly how much you WANT to spend on a car, and start looking...There are plenty of them out there.

Second, figure out how much you want to set aside for improvements, and you will want them, everyone does....(never get a short throw shifter...for any car)
....

Third, when you find a car in your price range, look it over good and make the choice on what you are willing to live with, because no car is perfect, and if it is you wont be able to afford it. The main thing to watch out for is rust.

The first picture is what I bought off of EBAY with out even talking to the owner....
The second is what it looks like today...

Happy shopping..

[David_J]

I'm willing to spend what it takes to get the right one. I don't have a set budget for this. Since the new car will be a 4th car for us, it probably wouldn't even see many miles at first. So costs would be low for awhile. The hard decision would be deciding between spending money on the Boxster or the 911.

The 2 that I was considereing where completely different. One was a 1982 SC, the other a 1989 Cararra 4. Like I said, it's about finding the right car with the right color combo. There are so many Targas out there, but I'm not looking for one of those.

I've done a lot of searching up and down the west coast. That is my search area as a 20 hour trip would be within reason for a pickup. I would just trailer it back home.

As far as the short shifter, that was one of the best mods I did to my Boxster. One for the 911 may feel a little different.

-David

[Grizzly]

So, your wife wants you to have a project, does she?

David, my boy, have I got a deal for you!



This should keep you occupied for a while.

[David_J]

Now that's a project. That would be a ton of fun, but would probably take me forever. Talk about a diamond in the rough.

If you remember her comment on my autocross video, I wonder what she would say about a project like that.

-David

[Grizzly]

I suspect it would be the autocross comments laced with profanity.

You're looking at the winter project that I haven't started yet. As far as early cars go though, the white one is a gem! If you look at the sill, you will see a rust hole right in the middle, and that's it! The floors are perfect, the suspension pan is perfect, longitudinals, everything. That's nearly unheard of on an early car. So here's the plan...




The red one is complete, running and driving, but primarily constructed of swiss cheese. So, we're (meaning me, while my friends drink my beer) are going to disassemble the red one piece by piece, refinish every nut and bolt, and reassemble it on the other body. Finished result?




...but a little lower, with a red interior...or maybe Slate Gray with black. Should be done by the weekend.

[C5150]

Originally Posted by Dohertycm

C5150, I have a 74 911 (see picture)....I am here to tell you that 90 percent of the money I have spent on my car is because I wanted different upgrades not because i had to spend the money to get the car running. Mine starts first time everytime I touch the starter, and I paid only 8 grand for the car.

As far as parts go, they are really not bad at all, infact the alternator was cheaper than my ford trucks alternator. They really are cheap compared to a boxster ( I have a 2000 S also).

Sounds (and looks) like you have a great ride - and the fact that it remains in (or even near) perfect running condition is awesome! I can only speak to my personal experiences through the friends I have who took on older 911s.

Both friends have had their cars in the shop twice last month alone; and although not catastrophic, each issue left their cars un-drivable. From fuel pumps, to belts flying off - most of the issues have been pretty minor. But each friend has spent boat loads of cash on parts and labor, keeping the 911 dream alive.

Truth be known, though... Both got their cars for great prices - and in the end, after all repairs and upgrades, the ROI will be well worth their endeavors. And I can attest, driving one is truly living that childhood dream I believe all of us Porsche fanatics have. All I was referring to was that if you choose to buy an older 911 - be sure to have a good amount of cash on the side, cause it will come in handy.

- C

[C5150]

David,

You mentioned a 1989 C4. A 964 is one of my favorite 911 body styles. My friend has a '91 C2, and I got to drive it around in February when I visited with him. He has the double mass flywheel issue, but he got the ride for a steal.

The car has tons of power. The clutch did take some getting used to - it was very unlike my Box. The sound of that thing was awesome - it just made me giggle. A 964 would, in my opinion, be a great route to go if you're shoppin'!

- C

[Brucelee]

I would consider all 911 SCs to be project cars. Expect lots of down time, very high repair bills.

The car is the Bomb though.

I would love having an old 912 restored of course.

[racer_d]

I had a 911 SC for a number of years. A 1978 Euro car (gray market) Rebuilt motor, stock suspension when purchased (in 2000). Spent lots of money "upgrading" the car, but it needed almost no "maintenance" money other than oil changes, valve jobs, and a change of plugs.

Some will say, and rightly so, that a 911 (sc) is a $20K car. Yes, you can spend $5-8K and put 13K into it, or, spend 12K and put another 8K into it, or spend 17K and put only 3k into it, but the bottom line, assuming a good, non-rusty example to begin with, is that it will become a $20K car.

Be wary of:

Pulled head studs - no easy fix here
Chain tensioners - make sure they have carerra tensioners. Cheap part, some labor to install, but much more reliable than the older style pieces
Pop-off valve - with out one you can blow the "airbox" which, is another very exensive failure!
Ethanol fuels - they can accelerate hardeing of already old fuel lines that were not designed to work with ethanol based fuels.

CIS components themselves are getting old. Some parts are harder to find (WUR's for instance)

Motor rebuilds (shop) are $6k-12K depending on what's needed to be done. CIS isn't "tuner" friendly.. so getting power out of them is a bit harder. Stroking the motor to a 3.2 is a nice way, 964 cams help as well. SSI and 2in-2out exhausts help. Could see 220hp on a dyno after these mods. IIRC, the '81 and newer US ones have better (bigger) valves than the early cars, which will help them breathe abit easier.

Doing a full replacement of 25 tear old suspension (shocks, torsion bars, sway bars, bushings, shocks) can be $5k shop bill right there.

That said, there isn't a better "bang for the buck" used Porsche out there. These cars are very fun to drive and, when set up properly, will run with the newer cars (albeit, not without a good driver )

The SC's have a "915" transmission which is much "notchier" than the Boxster. I never minded mine, since it was an improvement from my 914's transmission. The 1st-2nd synchro will wear is you aren't patient between shifts and no Porsche transmission enjoys being shifted quickly. The 3.2 Carerra ('84-'89) also used the 915 for part of its life. By 1987 Porsche intoduced the G50 trans, which was hydraulic and smoother in operation than the 915.

Not sure what your budget is, but an early 3.2 Carerra is very similar to the SCs. A bit more HP/TQ but also a bit more weight. You might consider these cars in your search as well.

If you are NOT SC knowledgeable, find some people/shops that are and have them look over your potential purchase.