Swapping engines

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I suspect the thinner box wrenches may not me much help in this situation.

You weren't wrong, Al. The wrench from the $14 set had even less clearance than the one I had. My friend, who's been scratching his head along with me, said he could use a set of SAE wrenches and offered to buy them. But he's been generous to me, so I gave them to him. I proposed grinding down my wrench until it fit, but he talked me out of it. It didn't take much talking, because I agreed it would ruin the set. I stuck the 1/4"-drive deep socket from the Supplemental kit on the nut and examined it again. It's tight, maybe half a millimeter clearance. No wonder I'm tearing my hair out. I just ordered that Capri-brand $5.99 3/8"-drive deep socket, and if it doesn't fit into the notch I won't feel bad about reducing its diameter with a grinder until it does. And I can clamp down on it and turn it with vice grips without worrying about marring the chrome. It's just a one-off, after all.

ADDITION: That said, there's something inherently beautiful about sockets and other chrome tools. My torque wrench belongs on an alter. The Chinese company that made the little socket dubbed it a "Capri." As lovely as it is, I won't hesitate to modify the Capri to get it in the notch and on the nut.

[piper6909]

Sorry to hear that. Have you thought about taking the original 3/8" drive socket, clamping it on a vise, taking a HSS drill bit to it and boring that inside hole out to accommodate a bigger screwdriver?

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Sorry to hear that. Have you thought about taking the original 3/8" drive socket, clamping it on a vise, taking a HSS drill bit to it and boring that inside hole out to accommodate a bigger screwdriver?

I would, but the guy whose set it belongs to might object. He's kinda picky about his tools, and I understand that. I'm the same way.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

I just ordered that Capri-brand $5.99 3/8"-drive deep socket, and if it doesn't fit into the notch I won't feel bad about reducing its diameter with a grinder until it does. And I can clamp down on it and turn it with vice grips without worrying about marring the chrome.

You can get this set today for $12.99, which you also wouldn't feel bad about grinding, and you can have all the other sockets as spares or whatever you want:

https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-drive-sae-high-visibility-deep-socket-10-piece-61291.html

[piper6909]

Or this single socket at Lowe's for less than Amazon's price:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-Standard-SAE-3-8-in-Drive-12-point-7-16-in-Deep-Socket/3387322

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Or this single socket at Lowe's for less than Amazon's price:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-Standard-SAE-3-8-in-Drive-12-point-7-16-in-Deep-Socket/3387322

D'OH! Lowe's socket would have been perfect. Nice sleuthing, Al. (By the way, the nut requires a 12-point socket, but the sockets in the set from Harbor Freight have 6 points. Great price, though.)

Seems to me LN Engineering needs to do one of two things: (1) provide in one of their installation kits a box-end wrench (or a 3/8"-drive socket) that will fit in the flange's notch, or (2) enlarge the notch so that standard tools can access the nut on the stud. I plan to pass the suggestion on to LN. That said, after dealing with them I have enormous respect for LN as a company. Their products are first-rate and their service is exceptional.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

D'OH! Lowe's socket would have been perfect. Nice sleuthing, Al. (By the way, the set from Harbor Freight has 6-point sockets, but the nut requires a 12 point.)

Seems to me LN Engineering needs to do one of two things: (1) provide in one of their installation kits a box-end wrench (or a 3/8"-drive socket) that will fit in the flange's notch, or (2) enlarge the notch so that standard tools can access the nut on the stud. I plan to pass the suggestion on to LN. That said, after dealing with them I have enormous respect for LN as a company. Their products are first-rate and their service is exceptional.

Ohhh, I didn't realize it wasn't a standard hex nut. I was wondering why you were referring to 12-point sockets! LOL. Shame on me for not putting two and two together.

They must do that just to screw with us. It's like my Subaru with those 13mm 12-point head bolts. It's the only damn thing on the car with 12-point bolts. I don't know if they're any better than hex bolts. One time I removed a head on a Subaru and the 12-point rounded out. It was a brand new socket, too. I ended up having to drill that head bolt out.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Ohhh, I didn't realize it wasn't a standard hex nut. I was wondering why you were referring to 12-point sockets! LOL. Shame on me for not putting two and two together.

They must do that just to screw with us. It's like my Subaru with those 13mm 12-point head bolts. It's the only damn thing on the car with 12-point bolts. I don't know if they're any better than hex bolts. One time I removed a head on a Subaru and the 12-point rounded out. It was a brand new socket, too. I ended up having to drill that head bolt out.

A guy I know didn't have an impact socket, which are 6 point, so he said he was going to use a standard 12-point socket instead. I advised against it. He called me back and sheepishly admitted he had rounded off the bolt's head. "I should have listened to you," he said. I don't know everything, but I do know using a 12-point non-hardened socket with an impact wrench is flirting with disaster.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

A guy I know didn't have an impact socket, which are 6 point, so he said he was going to use a standard 12-point socket instead. I advised against it. He called me back and sheepishly admitted he had rounded off the bolt's head. "I should have listened to you," he said. I don't know everything, but I do know using a 12-point non-hardened socket with an impact wrench is flirting with disaster.

Oh yeah! That's begging for trouble!

[LoneWolfGal]

LN support insists the 1/4"-drive 7/16" deep socket provided in the Supplemental kit "will work." No idea how, in view of the undeniable fact that a screwdriver small enough to fit through it is too small to hold the stud. I will proceed with my plan to modify a 3/8"-drive socket (or an individual box-end wrench, if I can find one).

In the meantime, I'm wrapped up in making an offer on a house, so I haven't had a chance to install the rear main seal yet.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

LN support insists the 1/4"-drive 7/16" deep socket provided in the Supplemental kit "will work." No idea how, in view of the undeniable fact that a screwdriver small enough to fit through it is too small to hold the stud. I will proceed with my plan to modify a 3/8"-drive socket (or an individual box-end wrench, if I can find one).

In the meantime, I'm wrapped up in making an offer on a house, so I haven't had a chance to install the rear main seal yet.

SMH. In the video you linked, even Jake said the screwdriver was too small. Good luck on the house.

[LoneWolfGal]

The 3/8"-drive 7/16" deep socket arrived today. As expected, its diameter is slightly too large to fit in the flange's notch. Not by very much, only a millimeter or so (see side-by-side comparison). A tungsten-carbide drum will grind down the outside circumference in short order. I also need to drill out the structure inside the socket (see photo) so the screwdriver can pass through. Speaking of which, the screwdriver on the left is about the minimum size necessary to hold the stud while the socket tightens the nut. It has to fit though the socket. The small screwdriver on the right is the largest that will fit through the 1/4"-drive socket, the one that LN says "will work." It won't.

[LoneWolfGal]

Here's a screenshot of the socket used in Jake's Flat Six Innovations video. Without question, it's a 3/8"-drive socket. Note the smaller diameter of the business end, which allows it to clear the notch. I'm guessing the center has been drilled out as well, to accommodate a larger screwdriver. I'm going to try to get hold of Charles Navarro and let him know LN's support is confused on this score.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oKlgMNYOxA

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

The 3/8"-drive 7/16" deep socket arrived today. As expected, its diameter is slightly too large to fit in the flange's notch. Not by very much, only a millimeter or so (see side-by-side comparison). A tungsten-carbide drum will grind down the outside circumference in short order. I also need to drill out the structure inside the socket (see photo) so the screwdriver can pass through. Speaking of which, the screwdriver on the left is about the minimum size necessary to hold the stud while the socket tightens the nut. It has to fit though the socket. The small screwdriver on the right is the largest that will fit through the 1/4"-drive socket, the one that LN says "will work." It won't.

Have you thought about griding off these edges of the screwdriver, or a similar throw-away screwdriver? Looks like you can reduce it by about 2mm on each side.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Have you thought about griding off these edges of the screwdriver, or a similar throw-away screwdriver? Looks like you can reduce it by about 2mm on each side.

True, but you would still need a way to tighten the nut on the stud. The 1/4"-drive deep socket would also need modification to fit a larger screwdriver through it, but that socket belongs to LN's rental kit. I'm working on the 3/8"-drive socket now. I was overly optimistic in predicting the tungsten-carbide drum would grind it down to size "in short order." The steel is tough, so it's taking more time than I had figured on. But I'm making progress.

[JFP in PA]

You need what is call a "pass thru socket" set:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91kvbpIVoDL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

The sockets have a large thru opening that the screw driver can pass thru and uses a special rachet that grips the flats on the outside of the butt end of the socket:

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

You need what is call a "pass thru socket" set:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91kvbpIVoDL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

The sockets have a large thru opening that the screw driver can pass thru and uses a special rachet that grips the flats on the outside of the butt end of the socket:

I recommended a similar set to her about a week or so ago, but she she said she needs a 12-point thin-walled socket and these appear to be neither.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

True, but you would still need a way to tighten the nut on the stud. The 1/4"-drive deep socket would also need modification to fit a larger screwdriver through it, but that socket belongs to LN's rental kit. I'm working on the 3/8"-drive socket now. I was overly optimistic in predicting the tungsten-carbide drum would grind it down to size "in short order." The steel is tough, so it's taking more time than I had figured on. But I'm making progress.

You can use a set of vice-grips on the socket. You only need to tighten it enough so it doesn't spin when you put a torque wrench on it, right?

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by piper6909

You can use a set of vice-grips on the socket. You only need to tighten it enough so it doesn't spin when you put a torque wrench on it, right?

Correct. The trick is to get it tight enough, and for that you need either a box-end wrench or socket that fits in the notch and on the nut.

[LoneWolfGal]

The 3/8"-drive socket will now fit in the notch and on the nut, I'm happy to report. It took a while to grind it down enough, and it wasn't easy. As I said, the steel is tough. Tough enough that an old drill bit I had wasn't up to the task of drilling out the hole for the screwdriver to go through. I'm going to knock off for tonight and hit it with a new bit tomorrow. In the meantime, here's my grinder setup. Note the quarter-inch high pile of steel particles on the paper towel. Needless to say, I wore a mask, nitrile gloves, and eye protection. The bottom photo is a comparison with the 1/4"-drive socket.

NOTE TO SELF: Get a bench grinder, for God's sake. This would have been the perfect application for one.