Light pole > Porsche

[CJ_Boxster]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I am watching carefully. A fine line between "free experssion" and maintaining a orderly society.

Good man Bruce!

[super66]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I am watching carefully. A fine line between "free experssion" and maintaining a orderly society.

this is laughable.....free expression is one thing....this isn't free expression.........I'm not "African American" but I'm not white....and I'm not generally sensitive to this kind of crap considering my favorite comedians include the likes of Mencia and Chapelle....but the comments below aren't made to funny....

I truly hope none of our "African American" board members read this cause I would think it would be rather offensive to them....wait, the one comment already suggested Afican Americans don't own Porsches so I guess we don't have members.....

for those of you who think its free expression.....go express those thoughts in the ghetto, surround yourself with individuals of a particular race and make those comments.....not from behind computers where you are nice and safe....

I've got 5 bucks you would probably not take that chance huh....

said my peace.....

take a queue from 986 roadster "wow who cares what colour they were, and where they came from and where they went......not one of you asked the guy if he was okay!"

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by super66

this is laughable.....free expression is one thing....this isn't free expression.........I'm not "African American" but I'm not white....and I'm not generally sensitive to this kind of crap considering my favorite comedians include the likes of Mencia and Chapelle....but the comments below aren't made to funny....

I truly hope none of our "African American" board members read this cause I would think it would be rather offensive to them....wait, the one comment already suggested Afican Americans don't own Porsches so I guess we don't have members.....

for those of you who think its free expression.....go express those thoughts in the ghetto, surround yourself with individuals of a particular race and make those comments.....not from behind computers where you are nice and safe....

I've got 5 bucks you would probably not take that chance huh....

said my peace.....

take a queue from 986 roadster "wow who cares what colour they were, and where they came from and where they went......not one of you asked the guy if he was okay!"

I am not a huge fan of being a hyphenated American or in even recognizing this distinction. While my ancestors were from Germany and Ireland, I do not describe myself as German-American or an Irish American. I am simply an American, as I was born here and am a citizen of the United States.

The first step towards relaxing the tensions that exist around race in America is to use language as a tool for unifying, not dividing the citizens of America. I would suggest that the so-called "leaders" of "black america" get off it and stop making distinctions that separate rather than unify. Ditto for the pols who use the race card as a way to get or retain their jobs.

It is very disingenuous to attack racism when in fact, you claim to "lead" folks who insist on being addressed by their race! It is also disingenuous to want to be treated equal while asking to be treated differently and in some cases better.

Lastly, it is not useful to avoid talking about this issue, simply because some folks might take offense. If I am out and about and am approached by ANYONE who looks like they have bad intentions, I would be an idiot NOT to recognize that fact and act acccordingly, ie get out of there. If that behavior makes me a racist, well then the definition of that word needs some refining. Here is the dictionary on racism.

Racism-The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

In my opinion, it is usually not race that gets folks nervous. I meet regularly with an investment banker who has black skin. This guy provokes nothing in me but respect and admiration for his smarts and class.

On the reverse side, I used to box in an inner city gym. Some of the guys there with black skin made MY skin crawl, they were that scary.

Racism? Hardly! Some of the guys with white skin in that gym made my skin crawl even more. To me, it was all about what I thought the person was up to in life, not the pigment in their skin.

I think MLK had it about right. It IS content of one's character that matters. Sadly, many folks on either side of the pigment scale have forgotten those words.

[986Roadster]

thanks for the story bruce, i think you missed our point. being african american had nothing to do with the car being stolen. the smart ass comment posted by one of the members was useless. there was no joke here, the guy had his care stolen and smashed. all he could highlight is the fact that it was done by an african american. i think if someone commented about a german or irish, you would of reacted very differently. oh well. i don't think it made a difference if it was a black guy or a white guy. no need to comment.

[Grizzly]

The thing I find most unsettling, is that we've made an awful lot of assumptions here, but we have no idea what actually occurred. Many of us seem to be assuming that the car was stolen by "African-American" males and crashed. Was it? Or was the car struck by a Police cruiser? Did the car's owner swerve to avoid the action and strike the light pole himself? Did the Police hit the light pole and it in turn struck the Porsche? Were the "African-American" males suspects in some criminal act, or were they the victims? Were they fleeing the Police, or were the Police coming to assist them? For all we know they were innocent bystanders, completely devoid of any responsibility for what occurred. Some of us hear the words "African American males" and immediately assume the worst. That, my good friends, ain't right.

[super66]

Originally Posted by 986Roadster

thanks for the story bruce, i think you missed our point. being african american had nothing to do with the car being stolen. the smart ass comment posted by one of the members was useless. there was no joke here, the guy had his care stolen and smashed. all he could highlight is the fact that it was done by an african american. i think if someone commented about a german or irish, you would of reacted very differently. oh well. i don't think it made a difference if it was a black guy or a white guy. no need to comment.

agree again 986....

Bruce you could right and ramble for days, just don't align with MLK and then support the comments on the board as free expression....the point is to eliminate that form of thinking....your right, the color of someones skin shouldn't impact anything......but the comments on this thread are nothing but racist comments....

any justification that helps you sleep better is cool by me, you have a black banker, a mexican friend, whatever...cool....but like I said, thoses comments were not expressing anything but hate......but hey, leave them up, as Jeff said, people will just use it to consider us pompous and racist.....

but this really needs to go no further, at the very least the comments have stopped and thats a start....

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by super66

agree again 986....

Bruce you could right and ramble for days, just don't align with MLK and then support the comments on the board as free expression....the point is to eliminate that form of thinking....your right, the color of someones skin shouldn't impact anything......but the comments on this thread are nothing but racist comments....

any justification that helps you sleep better is cool by me, you have a black banker, a mexican friend, whatever...cool....but like I said, thoses comments were not expressing anything but hate......but hey, leave them up, as Jeff said, people will just use it to consider us pompous and racist.....

but this really needs to go no further, at the very least the comments have stopped and thats a start....

I don't need to justify anything and I sleep fine thanks. Nothing I wrote supports any racist comments in anyway.

Go back and read what I wrote, or don't.

[Brucelee]

Is this the "racist, hate filled" post that you guys want deleted?


I am sure they were just fine young men who wanted to possess something the white man stole from their ancestors. Thousands of years ago they were all kings and queens who probably had their own car very similar to today's Porsche.




Quote:


"Hummm African Americans involved in a crime..are you sure? according to Reverend Al they don't do such things, they just get bad press from the Po Po."

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

[super66]

yeah that would be greatly appreciated, but thats a quote so please don't miss the original....

also, I'm geographically challened in terms of California but this to me reads as African Americans can't afford to live in San Jose....not sure if San Jose is a high class area....

"African Americans... In SAN JOSE!!!! maybe they were Michael Jacksons house sitters."

I just think none of this is necessary......I wouldn't be happy reading it about my peeps.....

[eslai]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I am not a huge fan of being a hyphenated American or in even recognizing this distinction. While my ancestors were from Germany and Ireland, I do not describe myself as German-American or an Irish American. I am simply an American, as I was born here and am a citizen of the United States.

The first step towards relaxing the tensions that exist around race in America is to use language as a tool for unifying, not dividing the citizens of America. I would suggest that the so-called "leaders" of "black america" get off it and stop making distinctions that separate rather than unify. Ditto for the pols who use the race card as a way to get or retain their jobs.

It is very disingenuous to attack racism when in fact, you claim to "lead" folks who insist on being addressed by their race! It is also disingenuous to want to be treated equal while asking to be treated differently and in some cases better.

This is a very common argument against racial advocacy. Why should we treat you different? Why should we have to treat you any different than anyone else--why do you want to point out your differences?

The problem with that argument is that it ignores the fact that the societal norms that exist without countermeasure are skewed in favor of ingrained social groups. To pretend that there is not an inequity between the treatment of races in America would be unjust.

Meh, I don't feel like I've really countered you with much on this one. I wish I could remember all the arguments about this topic but it's been a long time since I've discussed it with anyone--back in my college days when I was all big on the ethnic issues.

Anyhow, it's an interesting issue overall, but my basic, unfounded (because I'm sucking tonight) point is that you can't pretend that racism doesn't exist in America, and that if the minorities didn't complain, there would be more unity.

[Adam]

Since we are making this thread about race, can somebody tell my why 85%+ of all people in prison are black when they represent a much smaller sect..maybe(10-15%) of our population? Is it the man? No sarcasm or disrespect here just a question.

[gRed04]

Originally Posted by super66

I just think none of this is necessary......I wouldn't be happy reading it about my peeps.....

Well I for one also agree that several comments were out of line. That is assuming that we all do care for each other for more than the brand of car we drive.

Bruce, I do understand some of your frustration regarding the separation and preferential treatment that certain communities and groups continually push for and the rest of the country is all to willing to abide.

All for the sake of being politically correct. In this day and age it simply divides us further. If we are going to progress we are going to have to stop trying so hard to be different.

However, if we do care about each other than let's not hide behind "free expression" when we know it is not right.

“Do unto others as we would like others to do unto you”. Wise man once reminded us that.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Adam

Since we are making this thread about race, can somebody tell my why 85%+ of all people in prison are black when they represent a much smaller sect..maybe(10-15%) of our population? Is it the man? No sarcasm or disrespect here just a question.

I only have the federal statistics handy, and it would take a more work than I'm willing to do right now to get you the State and local numbers, but the simple explanation is that your percentages are waaaay off. Below are the actual Bureau of Prisons numbers, including every last prisoner as of November 26, 2006. You'll see that not only aren't blacks 85% of the Federal prison population, they aren't even close to the majority.

White 109,064 (56.4%)
Black 77,714 (40.2%)
Native Am. 3,342 ( 1.7%)
Asian 3,239 ( 1.7%)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I only have the federal statistics handy, and it would take a more work than I'm willing to do right now to get you the State and local numbers, but the simple explanation is that your percentages are waaaay off. Below are the actual Bureau of Prisons numbers, including every last prisoner as of November 26, 2006. You'll see that not only aren't blacks 85% of the Federal prison population, they aren't even close to the majority.

White 109,064 (56.4%)
Black 77,714 (40.2%)
Native Am. 3,342 ( 1.7%)
Asian 3,239 ( 1.7%)

Whoa, I guess I was way off. I heard it was about 85% black on court tv or something if I remember correctly. Where is Latino in those figures?

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Adam

Whoa, I guess I was way off. I heard it was about 85% black on court tv or something if I remember correctly. Where is Latino in those figures?

Latino is an ethnicity, so the Latino population is shown as either black or white in the race figures. The Latino population is 60,745, or 31.4 % of the total Federal prison population.

[RandallNeighbour]

For what it's worth, I have found that most every ethnic group describes a less-than-ideal situation--when in the company of their own ethnic group--with identifying statements about the color or race of the person in that situation.

I have found myself doing it as well, and I have actually had numerous conversations with my wife over the course of the last 20 years wondering why people do this in general and why I do it in particular. I feel it is a personal character flaw I must work hard to correct today and in the future.

I do wish we were all color blind and we could just tell a story and say "this guy" or "a lady" and leave it at that... and if asked whether the man or woman was white or black or Asian or whatever, we would all have the presence of mind to say, "What does that have to do with anything?"

Of course, then we'd be accused of being sexist by telling the story about a man or a woman when we should have described it as "a person".

This is actually a good thread. It has made me once again review my own hidden prejudices and has set the stage for personal growth and additional change in this area.

[gRed04]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I only have the federal statistics handy, and it would take a more work than I'm willing to do right now to get you the State and local numbers, but the simple explanation is that your percentages are waaaay off. Below are the actual Bureau of Prisons numbers, including every last prisoner as of November 26, 2006. You'll see that not only aren't blacks 85% of the Federal prison population, they aren't even close to the majority.

White 109,064 (56.4%)
Black 77,714 (40.2%)
Native Am. 3,342 ( 1.7%)
Asian 3,239 ( 1.7%)

( my apologies Grizzly just noticed you said Federal only )

I am pretty sure your numbers are way off. I believe we had approx. 2M people in state and federal prisons at the end of 2005. Another 2M in probation and work/release programs.

US Dept of Justice would have breakdowns by race, crime, state ....

[dbth]

Here's my take.

Racial stereotypes will always exist.Some of the stereotypes have some statistical proof.Others are due to fear , hatred or ignorance.

Different people have different cultures and are thus ARE different.
The answer to narrowing the cultural divide for people of color lies in education and a stronger family unit.

The cycle of poverty , drugs , teenage pregnancy , crime and incarceration is destroying a generation of young people.


While anyone can culturally assimilate to societal norms ,such as Brucelee's banker friend and be accepted, stereotypes won't be changed unless you actually meet the person.

We can't make up for the damage done by generations of hatred and ignorance. Political correctness has imposed a face to face pretense of respect to minorities.

But when white people cross the street when a group of black men walk down the street , does that make them racists or realists?

There are no easy answer to race relations.
But we can at least attempt to stop the disrespect of person based on the color of their skin.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by gRed04

I am pretty sure your numbers are way off. I believe we had approx. 2M people in state and federal prisons at the end of 2005. Another 2M in probation and work/release programs.

US Dept of Justice would have breakdowns by race, crime, state ....

If you read what I wrote, you'll see that this is the Federal Prison Population Only. I can try to account for all 2+ million prisoners nationwide. The Federal numbers are what I have at my disposal.

[gRed04]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

If you read what I wrote, you'll see that this is the Federal Prison Population Only. I can try to account for all 2+ million prisoners nationwide. The Federal numbers are what I have at my disposal.

Caught that a little too late and apologized in a edit in my post.