Break-in period

[Brucelee]

Generally speaking, your dealer is an idiot.

I do like the 1000 mile change idea IF you intend to keep this car for beyond the warranty period.

Otherwise, don't bother.

And change your oil at 7500 intervals IMHO.

Find another dealer if this is indicative of what they know. The "hard break in" theory is nonsense.

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I do like the 1000 mile change idea IF you intend to keep this car for beyond the warranty period.

Brucelee, I think the "future owner" will see value in this too! So, I did it for my ownership experience (however long that may be) and in mind for the future person who owns my car.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

The Hard Break-in advice is aimed specifically at engines, but these aren't the only components which break-in. The Transmission, Brakes, Wheel Bearings, Bushings, Shocks, Fuel Pump, Oil Pump, Coolant Pump, Alternator Bearing, etc. all establish wear patterns during this critical period. Easier is better in my experience.

On an engine rebuild, the scenario is different and a Hard Break-in is more appropriate. But you're only dealing with the engine and not the entire unit.

Using Mineral Oil during the break-in was done at a time when Synthetics were thought to be more slippery, which just isn't so with todays better refined organic Oils. Also, it was cheaper to replace.

No one has ever suffered from following the manufacturer's advice on the break-in. Stick with that. I'm not even going to go into what Salesmen do or do not know...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[SD987]

For me, things are simple: Qualification and motive. Porsche engineers are by far the most qualified to give break-in recommendations about Porsches, and those are summed up in the manual. The only thing that would prevent me from listening to those recommendations would be lack of honesty on their part i.e. if Porsche would somehow benefit from giving me the wrong advice. It's in Porsche's interest to minimize its warranty costs, which is aligned with my interest in having a trouble free ownership. Since our interests are aligned, I have no reason to question their honesty. Hence, I follow the recommended break-in procedure.

Couldn't agree with this more, and for the same reason I have followed and will follow the 20K oil change/service interval. Other 987 owners follow the break-in but not the servicing recommendations, which makes me wonder why they selectively second-guess Porsche engineers.

Ricklin, having a white 06 S myself, I'd be interested in seeing pics of yours with the blue/blue combo. BTW, do you frequent the UTC area at all? I saw a white 987 S getting on the 5 north off of Genessee and am wondering if that was you.

[Brucelee]

"Couldn't agree with this more, and for the same reason I have followed and will follow the 20K oil change/service interval. Other 987 owners follow the break-in but not the servicing recommendations, which makes me wonder why they selectively second-guess Porsche engineers."

Well, here is a challenge. Run the oil for 20K MILES and then take a small sample and send it to Blackstone labs for analysis. I think this is a $15 charge or so.

Then report back to us. I think you will be literally amazed at what our dear Porsche engineers have been recommending.

To save you some trouble, using M1 0W-40 oil, the UOA I have seen indicate that this oil is SHOT at about 10K miles tops.

That is NOT true of Red Line oil which is likely good for 15K.

But hey, it is your engine.

Goodluck.

[SD987]

Well, here is a challenge. Run the oil for 20K MILES and then take a small sample and send it to Blackstone labs for analysis. I think this is a $15 charge or so.

Then report back to us. I think you will be literally amazed at what our dear Porsche engineers have been recommending.

To save you some trouble, using M1 0W-40 oil, the UOA I have seen indicate that this oil is SHOT at about 10K miles tops.

That is NOT true of Red Line oil which is likely good for 15K.

..umm, what exactly would running your test indicate? In order to be of any value, sampling would have to be done at intervals (say, every 5k), along the way. No doubt the oil degrades but is the degradation at 20k so much more versus 15k, or 10k or 5k to justify an earlier interval? At what point does the oil degradation justify changing it? I'm guessing both Porsche and the engine oil companies have run just a couple of these tests. Since car companies often provide guidelines to protect the consumer from his/her self I'd say the 20k interval is actually understated.

And your response doesn't answer the question posed by z12358. If a shorter interval was required, why wouldn't Porsche simply make that the interval? There's nothing to gain with a shorter interval, no prestige is bestowed on a marque for having the longest oil change interval, nor is there "shame" in a shorter interval. There's only the downside of increased warranty claims, as noted by z. And there's only downside in a long interval for a company trying to sell oil. Yes, M1 wants to be known as a "long lasting oil", but that reputation could be garnered with a 10k interval.

I know you enjoy bashing Porsche on maintenance/reliability but there's little credibility in a Porsche/Oil conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy, Mercedes (my SLK interval is 13k) must be "in on it" too, then.

[z12358]

"...no prestige is bestowed on a marque for having the longest oil change interval, nor is there "shame" in a shorter interval. ..."

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Actually, as I said, Porsche DOES gain by recommending a longer interval, as it lowers the perceived cost-to-own (maintenance costs) of their cars in the eyes of potential buyers, thus making them more marketable and competitive. Porsche may have decided that the slight increase in wear (thus increase in warranty claims) is worth that increase in marketability. The equation for the owners is different, as they only care about minimizing wear. Whenever there's such misalignment of interests, it's worth to be more careful and buy insurance (change oil more frequently).

Z.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by SD987

Well, here is a challenge. Run the oil for 20K MILES and then take a small sample and send it to Blackstone labs for analysis. I think this is a $15 charge or so.

Then report back to us. I think you will be literally amazed at what our dear Porsche engineers have been recommending.

To save you some trouble, using M1 0W-40 oil, the UOA I have seen indicate that this oil is SHOT at about 10K miles tops.

That is NOT true of Red Line oil which is likely good for 15K.

..umm, what exactly would running your test indicate? In order to be of any value, sampling would have to be done at intervals (say, every 5k), along the way. No doubt the oil degrades but is the degradation at 20k so much more versus 15k, or 10k or 5k to justify an earlier interval? At what point does the oil degradation justify changing it? I'm guessing both Porsche and the engine oil companies have run just a couple of these tests.

And your response doesn't answer the question posed by z12358. If a shorter interval was required, why wouldn't Porsche simply state that? There's nothing to gain with a shorter interval, no prestige is bestowed on a marque for having the longest oil change interval, nor is there "shame" in a shorter interval. There's only the downside of increased warranty claims, as noted by z. And there's only downside in a long interval for a company trying to sell oil. Yes, M1 wants to be known as a "long lasting oil", but that reputation could be garnered with a 10k interval.

I know you enjoy bashing Porsche on maintenance/reliability but there's little credibility in a Porsche/Oil conspiracy. If there is a conspiracy, Mercedes (my SLK interval is 13k) must be "in on it" to, then.

No conspiracy and no bashing. And my credibility is fine thanks.

Here are several quick points.

1-The point was raised above that Porsche was SOUNDLY criticized for years for the cost of routine maintainence. One way to counter that was to move the period out a bit. On things like spark plugs etc, no big deal.

However, your theory about how you are sure they tested oil quality etc. is just that, a theory. Moreover, Porsche has shown quite clearly that they are really concerned about warranty costs, not ownership costs. The "price" of using shot oil shows up later, not during the warranty period. The price is excess wear.

Re: the oil testing, frankly that has been done to death on Bob is the Oil Guy's website. The oil analysis shows things like wear metals in the oil, additives left in the oil, viscosity retention and the like. These are compared to the oil when new.

Bottom line, if you want to ride say 10K miles with oil that has basically had it, go ahead and do it.

It is scant solace indeed when your Box engine is shot and you comfort yourself that you followed those brilliant engineers recommendations.

Of course, we don't know who made these recommendations, the engineers or the finance VP.

BTW-My service tech admits off the record that the 20 K is bogus.

But hey, it is your car. Risk the 15Grand engine on basis of faith in the factory.

[z12358]

"Couldn't agree with this more, and for the same reason I have followed and will follow the 20K oil change/service interval. Other 987 owners follow the break-in but not the servicing recommendations, which makes me wonder why they selectively second-guess Porsche engineers."

The oil interval recommendation is SLIGHTLY different. There IS a reason for Porsche to be recommending longer intervals as that lowers the projected maintenance costs (cost to own) and makes them more competitive in the market. Since shorter intervals don't hurt, many owners decide to alleviate the risk from that slight "interest misalignment" by buying insurance (keeping shorter intervals). Nothing wrong with that.

Z.

[Rail26]

I followed Brucelee's advice because it made the most sense. I religiously followed the break in period and changed the oil at 1500 miles. I change the oil regularly at 7500 miles. Might be overkill, but I want to take care of my engine for the long term for me or for the next buyer.

Originally Posted by Brucelee

Generally speaking, your dealer is an idiot.

I do like the 1000 mile change idea IF you intend to keep this car for beyond the warranty period.

Otherwise, don't bother.

And change your oil at 7500 intervals IMHO.

Find another dealer if this is indicative of what they know. The "hard break in" theory is nonsense.