1999 Stalled and won't restart

[78F350]

I just had a call from a friend on the side of the road. His '99 just died out as if it had been turned off. No bad noises, no puddles, just stopped. I suggested fuel pump relay and Crank sensor, but he is on the side of the road with no tools or parts.
It cranks, but does not fire.
Tach jumps slightly.
Fuel pump relay was pulled out and put back in.

#1 He's staying safe and calling AAA.
#2 Hoping there's another thing to look at or try to get it running.

Any suggestions?

[JFP in PA]

Fuel system.

[mtb50]

Originally Posted by 78F350

I just had a call from a friend on the side of the road. His '99 just died out as if it had been turned off. No bad noises, no puddles, just stopped. I suggested fuel pump relay and Crank sensor, but he is on the side of the road with no tools or parts.
It cranks, but does not fire.
Tach jumps slightly.
Fuel pump relay was pulled out and put back in.

#1 He's staying safe and calling AAA.
#2 Hoping there's another thing to look at or try to get it running.

Any suggestions?

Has he recently drove in a lot of rain or maybe washed the car with the drains plugged? Maybe immobilizer

[blue62]

Originally Posted by 78F350

I just had a call from a friend on the side of the road. His '99 just died out as if it had been turned off. No bad noises, no puddles, just stopped. I suggested fuel pump relay and Crank sensor, but he is on the side of the road with no tools or parts.
It cranks, but does not fire.
Tach jumps slightly.
Fuel pump relay was pulled out and put back in.

#1 He's staying safe and calling AAA.
#2 Hoping there's another thing to look at or try to get it running.

Any suggestions?

There is a relay panel in the rear trunk.
Position 1. DME relay
Position 2. fuel injector, ignition coil relay.
Also I believe there is a fuse for the Imobilizer under the drivers seat.
A failure in any one of those would prevent it from running.
He could start with those.

If no joy then he could start with:
Is it a no spark issue or no fuel issue.
once he has the answer to that it will give him a path to take.
He can check for a no fuel issue by spraying starting fluid into the intake and see if it will fire.
He can check spark with one of those spark testers you can get from any auto parts store.
Easy effective methods
Keep us posted.

[P-C]

So, I am the friend with the '99 on the side of the road. It doesn't look like any relays are available nearby so I'll be getting towed home. I have a 1999 996 so I'll try out some of the relays from that car to start the process of diagnosing it. For now it looks like my options are pretty limited.

[P-C]

Ok, the car is home. I swapped in a new relay and it starts, but it is NOT happy and does not stay running. I've shared a link to a video below. Any guesses before I pull the oil filter and pan?
https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0w8QTBQ9JW_uBp_4C8088FlLw

[Beelzy]

Sure sounds like the fuel pump. Mine started cutting out at speed, then one day nothing.
Check that thoroughly first.

[Dllrd23]

Originally Posted by P-C

Ok, the car is home. I swapped in a new relay and it starts, but it is NOT happy and does not stay running. I've shared a link to a video below. Any guesses before I pull the oil filter and pan?
https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0w8QTBQ9JW_uBp_4C8088FlLw

internal engine. I would not start it again and rev it. pull the pan check the filter. Maybe lucky and have lost a timing chain shoe but doesn't sound good.

[ndfrigi]

no check engine light? use diagnostic scanner and hope you get an error code to give you closer idea what to look at.

[P-C]

I do have an obd tool and will use it, but I really don't want to start it again until I check the oil.

[JFP in PA]

You don't need to start the car for the scan tool to read the DME.

[blue62]

I don't think pulling the oil pan is going to tell you anything.
You need to start with the basics.

First what happened when it quit running on you out on the road?
Did it just die like turning off a light switch?
Were there any odd sounds?
Did it shake or buck?
Any smells???
Any smoke out the tailpipe?
Need to know what your senses were telling you when it died.
Anything out of the ordinary???

Second any modifications to the car????
How many miles on it?

Third Did you get a CEL or any lights on the dash when it died?

Fourth hook up a good scanner and look for codes and pending codes.
If you have a code or codes retrieve the freeze frame info.

Then you can go to things like verifying correct fuel pressure, pull the spark plugs and look at the conditon of them. oil fouled???? burned up??? things like that. they can tell you alot.
possible failed AOS???? I see lots of blue smoke in the video., correct ignition timing, correct valve timing, correct compression.

Follow basic diagnostic procedures.
Simplest things first work step by step to the most complex.

Oh ya which relay or relays did you replace or swap?
Have you had any previous problems with it?

Pulling your spark plugs is one of the first things I would do.
The smoke from the exhaust looks like oil smoke need to see the condition of the plugs.
Take a picture of them and post it if you can.
From what I see in the video they should show oil fouling.
If they are that will make the car run like crap.
When you pull them label them with the correct cylinder. Cyl1 cyl2 cyl3 ect.ect.
that way we know which cylinders and which bank are having issues.

[P-C]

Just tried to pull codes. No check engine light, no codes.

[mtb50]

Originally Posted by P-C

Just tried to pull codes. No check engine light, no codes.

Did you try starting fluid in the left intake vent? Just a little bit !

[piper6909]

I'm with Dllrd23. From the video, it sounds to me like an internal engine problem. Don't these motors have a problem with the cylinder liners? D-chunk seems to be the technical term. That would explain all the smoke.

But what I don't get is why the relay would fry at the same time. I doubt it's coincidental.

Edit:
On second thought, if that were the case it should throw a misfire code. So hopefully it's not D-chunking.

[78F350]

When I've run an engine that was misfiring, it wasn't shy about throwing codes and blinking the check engine light. Anyone know why this one wouldn't?

It ran after swapping the fuel pump relay, but that was also after sitting for several hours. Maybe the relay swap getting it running was a coincidence. (swap the bad relay back in for curiosity).

My advice is to check the oil filter (easy and decisive if there is bad stuff in there), then proceed as Blue62 advised. I'm still wondering if it sucked a bunch of oil in the intake from the AOS.

The car probably has just under 100,000 miles and had good care through it's history. No mods, a basic 1999 5-speed manual.

[P-C]

Originally Posted by blue62

I don't think pulling the oil pan is going to tell you anything.
You need to start with the basics.

First what happened when it quit running on you out on the road?
Did it just die like turning off a light switch?
Were there any odd sounds?
Did it shake or buck?
Any smells???
Any smoke out the tailpipe?
Need to know what your senses were telling you when it died.
Anything out of the ordinary???

Second any modifications to the car????
How many miles on it?

Third Did you get a CEL or any lights on the dash when it died?

Fourth hook up a good scanner and look for codes and pending codes.
If you have a code or codes retrieve the freeze frame info.

Then you can go to things like verifying correct fuel pressure, pull the spark plugs and look at the conditon of them. oil fouled???? burned up??? things like that. they can tell you alot.
possible failed AOS???? I see lots of blue smoke in the video., correct ignition timing, correct valve timing, correct compression.

Follow basic diagnostic procedures.
Simplest things first work step by step to the most complex.

Oh ya which relay or relays did you replace or swap?
Have you had any previous problems with it?

Pulling your spark plugs is one of the first things I would do.
The smoke from the exhaust looks like oil smoke need to see the condition of the plugs.
Take a picture of them and post it if you can.
From what I see in the video they should show oil fouling.
If they are that will make the car run like crap.
When you pull them label them with the correct cylinder. Cyl1 cyl2 cyl3 ect.ect.
that way we know which cylinders and which bank are having issues.

Ok, this post and your last one were great and I owe the group some better information, starting with the car in question.

It is a '99 that I purchased from 78F350. Completely stock, 95k miles, completely reliable up until this incident.

I left a friend's house and made it about 5 miles to a highway on ramp. As I was accelerating onto the highway, I lost drive suddenly after I shifted from first to second. I didn't notice any bad noises or smoke, but I was also looking ahead and listening to music so I can't guarantee that those symptoms were absent. I tried shifting to third and then back to first because it felt almost like second gear wasn't engaging. There was no shaking or bucking that I recall, just a complete lack of thrust.

The first thing I did when I stop was look under the car for a loose cv axle because it initially felt like a transmission issue. After I saw nothing out of the ordinary including no fluids dripping, I attempted to start the car. It seemed to just turn over with no combustion whatsoever. After I got the car home, I swapped in the pink fuel pump relay from my 996 and the car started as the video I linked above shows. The motor would run if I held down the throttle, but would die fairly quickly as soon as I released it. The smoke doesn't really bother me as I understand AOS issues can look much worse than they are, but the mechanical noises sound BAD in person. This makes me hesitate to try starting it again.

I tried to read some codes yesterday as an initial diagnostic action. I didn't get any codes and the check engine light was not on. I want to try the relay from the 986 in the 996 to make sure that it is bad. I think my next course of action with the Boxster is going to be looking at the oil filter and draining the oil through a strainer. If this is a really bad thing, I would think that is the best way to find out.

If there is no shrapnel at that point, I'm really not sure how to proceed. I don't have a fuel pressure tool, but I can certainly check the plugs. I think we've ruled the immobilizer fuse out, but I can definitely check the other relays you mentioned in your first post. Replacing the AOS never seems to be a bad idea with these cars, but I'm hesitant to order one before I know whether the engine is toast.

[mtb50]

Originally Posted by P-C

Ok, this post and your last one were great and I owe the group some better information, starting with the car in question.

It is a '99 that I purchased from 78F350. Completely stock, 95k miles, completely reliable up until this incident.

I left a friend's house and made it about 5 miles to a highway on ramp. As I was accelerating onto the highway, I lost drive suddenly after I shifted from first to second. I didn't notice any bad noises or smoke, but I was also looking ahead and listening to music so I can't guarantee that those symptoms were absent. I tried shifting to third and then back to first because it felt almost like second gear wasn't engaging. There was no shaking or bucking that I recall, just a complete lack of thrust.

The first thing I did when I stop was look under the car for a loose cv axle because it initially felt like a transmission issue. After I saw nothing out of the ordinary including no fluids dripping, I attempted to start the car. It seemed to just turn over with no combustion whatsoever. After I got the car home, I swapped in the pink fuel pump relay from my 996 and the car started as the video I linked above shows. The motor would run if I held down the throttle, but would die fairly quickly as soon as I released it. The smoke doesn't really bother me as I understand AOS issues can look much worse than they are, but the mechanical noises sound BAD in person. This makes me hesitate to try starting it again.

I tried to read some codes yesterday as an initial diagnostic action. I didn't get any codes and the check engine light was not on. I want to try the relay from the 986 in the 996 to make sure that it is bad. I think my next course of action with the Boxster is going to be looking at the oil filter and draining the oil through a strainer. If this is a really bad thing, I would think that is the best way to find out.

If there is no shrapnel at that point, I'm really not sure how to proceed. I don't have a fuel pressure tool, but I can certainly check the plugs. I think we've ruled the immobilizer fuse out, but I can definitely check the other relays you mentioned in your first post. Replacing the AOS never seems to be a bad idea with these cars, but I'm hesitant to order one before I know whether the engine is toast.

I just now noticed the video. It sounds like a loose lifter but I don't think that would cause the smoke

[blue62]

So now that I have more info on what happened and have viewed the video I would rule out any issue with fuses or relays. The car starts and runs. So your getting fuel and spark.
From what you described and what I see in the video (the smoke). The issue is not transmission related it is engine.

From the smoke at the tail pipe it looks like your getting oil into multiple cylinders fouling out your plugs.

Draining the oil and looking at it and checking the oil filter are not bad ideas.
Any information you can get helps in diagnosing the issue.

But if you pull the plugs you can tell from the condition of them lots about what is going on.
For example.
If your problem is a lifter you will see a fouled plug on that cyl. the others will be good.
If you have something going on like a total failure of the AOS all the plugs will show oil fouling.
If your issues is say a chain tensioner pad and it has caused the cam to change timing your plugs will show it on that bank only.

If your issue is something like a failed AOS It could cause all your symptoms. That car will run like crap because the plugs are fouling out. No power, the engine will rattle and knock all kinds of things.

So I would for sure pull the plugs, if both banks show signs of oil fouling then I would look at pulling the throttle body and checking the intake for oil.

If only one bank shows oil fouling then that probably points to some other issue.

anyway pulling the plugs and checking there condition can tell you lots about what happened and the overall condition of the engine.
They will tell you if the issue is on 1 cyl. or multiple cyl's. 1 bank or both banks..

My thought on the Relay is that it was just a fluke. car will probably start with the old relay.

Also you said when you tried to restart the car out on the road that it seemed like it had no compression. So once all the plugs are out and checked you can do a compression test on all cyl's and get more info on engine condition.

Based on what you have said about what happened and what I see in a short video the above is how I would proceed.

Keep us posted I am always interested in outcomes

[blue62]

Originally Posted by 78F350

When I've run an engine that was misfiring, it wasn't shy about throwing codes and blinking the check engine light. Anyone know why this one wouldn't?

It ran after swapping the fuel pump relay, but that was also after sitting for several hours. Maybe the relay swap getting it running was a coincidence. (swap the bad relay back in for curiosity).

My advice is to check the oil filter (easy and decisive if there is bad stuff in there), then proceed as Blue62 advised. I'm still wondering if it sucked a bunch of oil in the intake from the AOS.

The car probably has just under 100,000 miles and had good care through it's history. No mods, a basic 1999 5-speed manual.

So what we would see as misfires can be a tricky thing.
look at it in this light.
The primary concern of OBDII and its sensors and DTC code system "IS NOT" I say again "IS NOT" about engine performance. It is about caytalitic converter performance. Everything else is secondary.
With that in mind if a misfire is seen by the OBDII system as harmful to the cat it will flash the CEL. If it sees a misfire as possibly damaging the cat it will see a code.
Those types of misfires are generally picked up by the knock sensors.
So depending on what the sensors report to the DME/ECU when a misfire occurs determines if your going to get a flash from the CEL or a hard code or nothing???
Thats my understanding of it for what ever it's worth

In my first post to this thread I suggested to your friend to check fuses and relays because with the info I had it seemed the car just died like turning off a light switch. So with that info fuel or spark was a likely issue. Both fuel and spark have associated fuses and relays in their systems. Fuses and relays are easiest to check so they are the starting point.
Simplest things first.

After getting more info and seeing the video I see lots of smoke at the tail pipe so from the color of the smoke,(looks like oil smoke doesn't look like water or excess fuel) oil fouled plugs is the most likely issue. just need to find out why the engine is getting oil fouled.
The relay that was changed out was most likely not part of the issue.
From what I see in a very short video, your friends car sucked a load of oil into the engine and multiple plugs are fouling out. Can make it run like crap or not want to run at all.. Will cause all kinds of noise because the engine if it runs is going to run very rough. Chains are going to slap. your going to get pinging or knocking. All kinds of bad sounds.

I am not saying I am positive it is AOS failure but it sure looks like oil fouling.
So I would go with what the engine is telling me. The smoke at the tail pipe is saying look at my plugs