Leaking LN Magnetic Drain Plug!

[maytag]

y'all are killin' me here......

Like others here, I bet I've changed crush-washers on oil-pans maybe a dozen times in my lifetime... and that's invariably been because I LOST IT IN THE DRAINED OIL.
I've reused literally hundreds of them.

Now, a crush-washer-under-pressure, like on a banjo-bolt or other similar installation, yeah, I'm MUCH more finicky about those. Many years ago, I bought an assortment and stuck it on the shelf. I Literally have a lifetime supply of crush-washers on the shelf, but I still reuse the crush-washer on the oil-pan.... until it gets lost.

And can we stop being disgusted with each other?
There are so many things dividing our society these days, let's not let crush-washers be one of them. Let's save that disgust for politics and face-masks.


https://www.amazon.com/DYWISHKEY-540Pcs-Automotive-Aluminum-Assortment/dp/B07NHH8JNK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=257AJ8CX31KHY&dchild=1&keywords=crush+washer+assortment&qid=1595868466&sprefix=crush+washer+ass%2Caps%2C183&sr=8-3

You're welcome.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by maytag

And can we stop being disgusted with each other?
There are so many things dividing our society these days, let's not let crush-washers be one of them. Let's save that disgust for politics and face-masks.

Once again, Maytag. You're the voice or reason. I only replied to the initial comment. I should have let it go but it's not in my nature But I'll extend a peace offering to 78F350. I hope he could tell by the emoji that I was joking.

PS: Those washers in the link you sent don't look like crush washers, they look like flat washers.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by piper6909

PS: Those washers in the link you sent don't look like crush washers, they look like flat washers.

a rose by any other name.....

an aluminum flat washer IS a crush washer. intended-or-not, haha.

I just did a quick search and posted the first hit. pick your own damned assortment!

hahahaha.

And yes, extend that olive branch. 78F350 is absolutely one of the "good guys" around here. watch how quietly and with little drama he goes about helping the forum members. He never asked me for a pat on the back, but I'ma give-em up anyway.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by maytag

a rose by any other name.....

an aluminum flat washer IS a crush washer. intended-or-not, haha.

I get it that it's soft metal, but when I think crush washers I think rolled metal ones that are hollow inside and flatten as you tighten them.

I guess aluminum is more like the cheap version of brass washers.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by piper6909

I get it that it's soft metal, but when I think crush washers I think rolled metal ones that are hollow inside and flatten as you tighten them.

I guess aluminum is more like the cheap version of brass washers.

I can't remember the last time I saw a crush washer of the type you're describing. I HAVE seen them, so I know what you're talking about, but all I've ever seen used over the last 30 years (including factory parts for Porsche & Ferrari) is the Flat Washer of (usually) aluminum, but occasionally copper. (Never brass. Alu and Cu are MUCH more malleable than brass).

Here's the Porsche Brand washer for the referenced application, you'll note it is a flat, alu washer.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90012310630OEM.htm?pn=900-123-106-30-OEM&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=1052

Where do YOU buy a crush-washer of the type you're describing?

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by maytag

I can't remember the last time I saw a crush washer of the type you're describing. I HAVE seen them, so I know what you're talking about...

Where do YOU buy a crush-washer of the type you're describing?

Subaru still uses them. In fact, IIRC, that's the first time I heard the term 'crush washer' so naturally that's what I think of when I hear it.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Subaru-803916010-Gasket-Pack/dp/B00IW33NRO/ref=asc_df_B00IW33NRO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241948264947&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4423746194248373463&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005888&hvtargid=pla-449381752974&psc=1

Originally Posted by maytag

...Never brass. Alu and Cu are MUCH more malleable than brass...

I always thought they used brass washers on banjo bolts and the like. Maybe it was copper, or a copper alloy that had a brass color.

[10/10ths]

....My point was only that LN lists a torque spec in their instructions.

The torque spec is there for a reason. The reason being that if you OVER torque their magnetic drain plug, the magnetic insert will “spin” inside the plug body and you will develop an oil leak.

That is why you SHOULD use a torque wrench EVERY time on the LN magnetic drain plug. The other issue is that their drain plug has a LOWER torque spec than the OEM drain plug.

So, you have a tool that can tell you exactly what the torque is. It just seems logical that you would want to ensure your car doesn’t develop an oil leak.

As far as the crush washer, well....yeah, you should use a new one every time. The idea is that they CRUSH upon use. So logically, you want one that has not been crushed when you replace it.

Crush washers are less than a dollar each. When you order an oil filter, order a dozen crush washers and you are set for years.

It’s really simple.

My point was that if you invested in a Porsche, invest a few bucks on crush washers and a torque wrench and keep her happy.

That was all.

The cost of ownership includes service.

It’s like guys who buy Mustangs and complain that the rear tires cost $200.

Buying a “cheap” old Boxster gets real expensive if you don’t properly maintain her.

That is what my “washers are cheap and engines are expensive” comment was all about.

Cheers, everyone.

Enjoy the drive.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by maytag

I can't remember the last time I saw a crush washer of the type you're describing. I HAVE seen them, so I know what you're talking about, but all I've ever seen used over the last 30 years (including factory parts for Porsche & Ferrari) is the Flat Washer of (usually) aluminum, but occasionally copper. (Never brass. Alu and Cu are MUCH more malleable than brass).

Here's the Porsche Brand washer for the referenced application, you'll note it is a flat, alu washer.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90012310630OEM.htm?pn=900-123-106-30-OEM&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=1052

Where do YOU buy a crush-washer of the type you're describing?

When I changed out the oil on my Toyota FJ Cruiser diffs and transfer case, a couple of the Toyota washers were like this (and a couple weren't...) I thought it was odd that they all weren't the same, but with the rolled edge you could really see and feel it crush down when you tightened it.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by steved0x

When I changed out the oil on my Toyota FJ Cruiser diffs and transfer case, a couple of the Toyota washers were like this (and a couple weren't...) I thought it was odd that they all weren't the same, but with the rolled edge you could really see and feel it crush down when you tightened it.

yeah, probably like most items, they source from the cheapest mfr with the same spec.

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a crush-washer like that though. (I've never owned a toyota, believe it or not! I might need to rectify that soon!)

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by maytag

watch how quietly and with little drama he goes about helping the forum members.

I guess implying that those who don't think the way he does fall out of bed head-first is 'little drama" in your opinion?

Or maybe it just wasn't one if his better moments?

Either way, I was joking in my response and I hope he understands that.

By the way, it was also aimed at 10/10ths, who implied that re-using a crush washer puts your engine at risk. A 2-fer, if you will. I'm extending a peace offering to him as well.

[78F350]

Honestly I am not a hard core washerist; I do have a couple baggies of them in various sizes, but I also may have on occasion picked a used one off the garage floor and stuck it on a plug before tightening it with Vice-Grips.

The discussion was getting a little polarized, so I just thought it would be fun to give it a push.

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by 78F350

The discussion was getting a little polarized, so I just thought it would be fun to give it a push.

Been known to do that on occasion myself!

[1PorscheBoxster986]

This will be too funny if the source of njbray's leaking oil problem is not the LN magnetic plug as suspected but the re-use of the crush washer that has taken over this thread. No that will not prove anything but stir up the discussion.

To torque or not to torque? To new or to re-use? Those are the questions.

[Qingdao]

Originally Posted by maytag

Now, a crush-washer-under-pressure, like on a banjo-bolt or other similar installation, yeah, I'm MUCH more finicky about those. Many years ago, I bought an assortment and stuck it on the shelf. I Literally have a lifetime supply of crush-washers on the shelf, but I still reuse the crush-washer on the oil-pan.... until it gets lost.

Pressure and no pressure (head pressure of less than 15cm is no pressure) 100% different scenarios. I agree.

I ALWAYS use new flat copper or aluminum washers on brake fittings. Oil fittings... sometimes.

I heard an old hillbillie tell me one time you can anneal the copper back into shape and re-use a copper washer. But copper washers like cotter pins are so cheap and plentiful why not just buy a new one. I guess if I was stranded in a desert I could use that information???

[blue62]

Originally Posted by Qingdao

Pressure and no pressure (head pressure of less than 15cm is no pressure) 100% different scenarios. I agree.

I ALWAYS use new flat copper or aluminum washers on brake fittings. Oil fittings... sometimes.

I heard an old hillbillie tell me one time you can anneal the copper back into shape and re-use a copper washer. But copper washers like cotter pins are so cheap and plentiful why not just buy a new one. I guess if I was stranded in a desert I could use that information???

Yes you can anneal copper washers.
Heat to cherry read and quench in water.

You can anneal aluminum washers.
blacken with a magic marker.
heat just until the magic marker burns off.
Air cool room temp.

Working copper or aluminum work hardens both.
To the point where they become brittle and crack.
Annealing them takes both back to there normal malleable state

There are times when you just can't buy what your looking for.
maybe a washer of a certain size and thickness.

[78F350]

Originally Posted by blue62

...
You can anneal aluminum washers.
blacken with a magic marker.
heat just until the magic marker burns off.
Air cool room temp.

Working copper or aluminum work hardens both.
To the point where they become brittle and crack.
Annealing them takes both back to there normal malleable state

There are times when you just can't buy what your looking for.
maybe a washer of a certain size and thickness.

Today I changed the oil in my wife's Honda Element. Rather than using a new crush washer I annealed the old one because of this thread. Now I'm going go outside with a flashlight and check for a leak because of this thread.

[blue62]

Originally Posted by 78F350

Today I changed the oil in my wife's Honda Element. Rather than using a new crush washer I annealed the old one because of this thread. Now I'm going go outside with a flashlight and check for a leak because of this thread.

Let us know if it leaks

[Frodo]

Originally Posted by 78F350

Today I changed the oil in my wife's Honda Element. Rather than using a new crush washer I annealed the old one because of this thread. Now I'm going go outside with a flashlight and check for a leak because of this thread.

A new member in the Reuse That Crush Washer club?
I don't know...should we all, collectively, be "disgusted"?

[Rob175]

I'm hoping they offer to start all over but it's more likely they will first try just tightening the drain plug and tell me to come back if it continues to leak.

I can almost guarantee they DID NOT use a torque wrench to tighten the plug to the 35 ft/lb spec. Since I don't wrench myself I wonder how many ft/lbs someone with just a wrench and arm strength would typically tighten the drain plug..... my guess is without a accurate torque wrench they might not tighten the plug enough to "crush" the washer enough to make a good seal.....or conversly they made it too tight and damaged the crush washer..........no idea.

I suppose tomorrow at the shop will tell.........

[Frodo]

Well, assuming you're right and they did not use a torque wrench initially, and assuming they bother to look up the proper torque called for, it would only make sense that they'd start out by properly torquing it. What's to lose with that approach?